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I keep repeating (and keep getting downvoted for this obvious truth) that even 8 working hours are too much. One can only keep decent levels of concentration on

by sklogic 12y ago

I keep repeating (and keep getting downvoted for this obvious truth) that even 8 working hours are too much. One can only keep decent levels of concentration on a mentally challenging task for no more than 4 hours a day. Good if you have something less mentally challenging to fill the remaining 4 hours with, but even better if you do not need to.

zo1 12y ago
I'd agree with this to an extent. Rather than "4 hours per day" we should rather look at it as a case of "after X units of time, one needs to recharge/rest/break". I often find myself mentally drained after a task, and I just need a few minutes to "recharge". Sure, I can push forward without the break, but I find myself not motivated to do it (and quite drained if I do it multiple times per day). Whereas, if I get a bit of a reprieve, I'm fine with the next task at hand. Not sure if it's like that for anyone else, though. Right now, I'm writing on HN because I'm taking a bit of a break after solving a production issue that was baffling me for the last hour.
- sklogic 12y ago
  Yes, that's reasonable, schedules may be more complex. This aspect (required rest schedule) was not very well researched. The only data I've got was collected by the IT and engineering companies, and they could only measure working-day-long spans.
Silhouette 12y ago
I would prefer not to pick a number at all. There are days when I'm really into something and can write (good) code for 12 hours straight, but those days don't happen very often. There are days when I have grunt work to do but other people keep distracting me, and if I write 1/10 the amount of useful code on those days I'm doing well. Usually it's somewhere in between. I probably average around 5-6 hours of productive coding per day on any given project, not counting break times, but with very wide variance. Also, although different projects aren't completely independent, I do find that after taking a significant break (read: probably multiple hours) I can work productively on something else for a while. For example, if I've got some main feature I'm developing but also need to investigate and fix some bugs, I might spend a few hours on the main work, but I might still be quite comfortable tracking down and fixing a few bugs later in the day. So quite often, I will actually split my working time into 2 or even 3 main sessions during a day, doing other things in between, though I have the advantage here of not being someone else's employee with standard office hours.
- sklogic 12y ago
  Yes, of course individual numbers may vary. I got this 4 hours average figure from the studies conducted by various companies regarding their engineers productivity.
gdulli 12y ago
With open office plans there's no way anyone's keeping up 8 hours of deep concentration on any day. And of course there's meetings, lunch, etc breaking up the day as well.
- mgraybosch 12y ago
  Headphones and power metal are my most reliable coping mechanism.
  - collyw 12y ago
    I personally find music fine for coding with tools I know. When I am trying to learn new concepts / frameworks / libraries, then silence makes a huge difference.
    - mgraybosch 12y ago
      Getting silence in an open plan office is more difficult than you think. Management frowns on me duct-taping other developers' mouths shut.
cantbecool 12y ago
You're spot on. I like to think it's analogous to over training if you're a body builder. After a certain amount of time, 3+ hours you are even causing more harm, than good, training. People need to realize we aren't designed to be 'hard workers' only smart workers.
kangax 12y ago
I noticed that I can't do more than 5 quality hours of work as well. And mostly, it's all about density. 2 hours of debugging a tricky issue, while having your tools fail you multiple times in the process, can drain me out for the remainder of the day. On the other hand, doing an interesting research/notes-taking or other non-infuriating work, and I might spend 6 hours without even feeling too tired. On average, 4-5 hours of _actual_ programming (thinking, writing, refactoring, testing, documenting) is all I can squeeze out for a day. Is this normal or am I not pushing myself enough? I'm not sure.

by sklogic 12y ago

zo1 12y ago

I'd agree with this to an extent. Rather than "4 hours per day" we should rather look at it as a case of "after X units of time, one needs to recharge/rest/break". I often find myself mentally drained after a task, and I just need a few minutes to "recharge". Sure, I can push forward without the break, but I find myself not motivated to do it (and quite drained if I do it multiple times per day). Whereas, if I get a bit of a reprieve, I'm fine with the next task at hand. Not sure if it's like that for anyone else, though. Right now, I'm writing on HN because I'm taking a bit of a break after solving a production issue that was baffling me for the last hour.

sklogic 12y ago
Yes, that's reasonable, schedules may be more complex. This aspect (required rest schedule) was not very well researched. The only data I've got was collected by the IT and engineering companies, and they could only measure working-day-long spans.

Silhouette 12y ago

I would prefer not to pick a number at all. There are days when I'm really into something and can write (good) code for 12 hours straight, but those days don't happen very often. There are days when I have grunt work to do but other people keep distracting me, and if I write 1/10 the amount of useful code on those days I'm doing well. Usually it's somewhere in between. I probably average around 5-6 hours of productive coding per day on any given project, not counting break times, but with very wide variance. Also, although different projects aren't completely independent, I do find that after taking a significant break (read: probably multiple hours) I can work productively on something else for a while. For example, if I've got some main feature I'm developing but also need to investigate and fix some bugs, I might spend a few hours on the main work, but I might still be quite comfortable tracking down and fixing a few bugs later in the day. So quite often, I will actually split my working time into 2 or even 3 main sessions during a day, doing other things in between, though I have the advantage here of not being someone else's employee with standard office hours.

sklogic 12y ago
Yes, of course individual numbers may vary. I got this 4 hours average figure from the studies conducted by various companies regarding their engineers productivity.

gdulli 12y ago

With open office plans there's no way anyone's keeping up 8 hours of deep concentration on any day. And of course there's meetings, lunch, etc breaking up the day as well.

mgraybosch 12y ago
Headphones and power metal are my most reliable coping mechanism.
- collyw 12y ago
  I personally find music fine for coding with tools I know. When I am trying to learn new concepts / frameworks / libraries, then silence makes a huge difference.
  - mgraybosch 12y ago
    Getting silence in an open plan office is more difficult than you think. Management frowns on me duct-taping other developers' mouths shut.

cantbecool 12y ago

You're spot on. I like to think it's analogous to over training if you're a body builder. After a certain amount of time, 3+ hours you are even causing more harm, than good, training. People need to realize we aren't designed to be 'hard workers' only smart workers.

kangax 12y ago

I noticed that I can't do more than 5 quality hours of work as well. And mostly, it's all about density. 2 hours of debugging a tricky issue, while having your tools fail you multiple times in the process, can drain me out for the remainder of the day. On the other hand, doing an interesting research/notes-taking or other non-infuriating work, and I might spend 6 hours without even feeling too tired. On average, 4-5 hours of _actual_ programming (thinking, writing, refactoring, testing, documenting) is all I can squeeze out for a day. Is this normal or am I not pushing myself enough? I'm not sure.