6 ms·

It sounds like they discovered that some people already knew how to program.

by ynniv 12y ago

FinnDS 12y ago
It seems to me that there are way too many variables that aren't really measurable for this to be completely accurate -- such as this example, some people probably had programmed before.
kifler 12y ago
Having recently (last year) enrolled in a Computer Programming program, I can say this is likely the case. The class has a number of people who are simply enrolled to get a piece of paper that states they know how to code and then there are those that are breaking new ground in learning. I have the logic down quite well but my biggest issue is the syntax - it would appear that Stanford thinks I'm doomed to fail.
- spion 12y ago
  One of the most touted advantages of Scheme (and other Lisps) as a teaching language is precisely the (lack of) syntax which allows the student to focus on logic.
  - marssaxman 12y ago
    One might as well claim that C++ has no syntax, as its source code is nothing but a linear series of undifferentiated octets. Scheme and other lisps have plenty of syntax; it's just expressed at a different level of abstraction than the one most languages use.
    - spion 12y ago
      C++ is an abomination - it should not only be avoided when teaching, but we should make all the effort to avoid it whenever possible. Learning programming using C++ as a language is like learning to walk on a grass-covered minefield - almost every feature hides something that can blow your leg off. Anyway, the fact remains that you need much fewer syntax lessons to get started with Scheme compared to anything else.
willvarfar 12y ago
> 70 students enrolled in an introductory undergraduate course in programming methodology I'm curious about that too; is this course optional? Would people who can already program take this course?
- khalilravanna 12y ago
  Anecdotally, at my university (graduated 2013 so still a recent experience), a lot of CS students took the intro to programming course. In fact, it was (and still is) a requirement for a BS in CS at the school. The only way you could get out of it was if you had taken AP CS in high school and passed the test for the credits. A large majority of my CS friends in that class had all been programming for either a little bit or quite some time, and the class was mostly a joke for them. Lectures were optional, and a bunch of friends (including myself) only attended three classes the entire semester: the first class (where we found out we didn't need to go to class except for tests) and the mid term and final. Of course on the other side of things, I had friends who had never programmed before and found the course grueling and struggled to pass.
  - auxym 12y ago
    Similar experience in my two first-year Matlab classes in mechanical engineering.
- Derander 12y ago
  I TA for this class. The class is optional for non-engineering majors but has enrollment >= 700 people per quarter. So many people at Stanford take the class that it's a bit of a cultural phenomenon. There are three "intro" programming classes at Stanford. CS106A is "intro to java", CS106B is "intro to C++", CS106X is CS106A + CS106B + a bit more in one quarter. People who already know how to program are encouraged to take one of the latter two, although there is always a contingent of people with /some/ background in 106A.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    For non-engineering people, Java seems like a slightly odd choice, is it not? So much overhead in learning, plus overhead if they did want to integrate coding into their lives in a light way. Why not Racket or a scripting language? As much as it pains me, even JS might be of better use. Or is it just the case that these people just wanna take one course from the "real" CS for a non-coding reason?

It sounds like they discovered that some people already knew how to program.

by ynniv 12y ago

It sounds like they discovered that some people already knew how to program.

It seems to me that there are way too many variables that aren't really measurable for this to be completely accurate -- such as this example, some people probably had programmed before.

kifler 12y ago

Having recently (last year) enrolled in a Computer Programming program, I can say this is likely the case. The class has a number of people who are simply enrolled to get a piece of paper that states they know how to code and then there are those that are breaking new ground in learning. I have the logic down quite well but my biggest issue is the syntax - it would appear that Stanford thinks I'm doomed to fail.

spion 12y ago
One of the most touted advantages of Scheme (and other Lisps) as a teaching language is precisely the (lack of) syntax which allows the student to focus on logic.
- marssaxman 12y ago
  One might as well claim that C++ has no syntax, as its source code is nothing but a linear series of undifferentiated octets. Scheme and other lisps have plenty of syntax; it's just expressed at a different level of abstraction than the one most languages use.
  - spion 12y ago
    C++ is an abomination - it should not only be avoided when teaching, but we should make all the effort to avoid it whenever possible. Learning programming using C++ as a language is like learning to walk on a grass-covered minefield - almost every feature hides something that can blow your leg off. Anyway, the fact remains that you need much fewer syntax lessons to get started with Scheme compared to anything else.

willvarfar 12y ago

> 70 students enrolled in an introductory undergraduate course in programming methodology I'm curious about that too; is this course optional? Would people who can already program take this course?

khalilravanna 12y ago
Anecdotally, at my university (graduated 2013 so still a recent experience), a lot of CS students took the intro to programming course. In fact, it was (and still is) a requirement for a BS in CS at the school. The only way you could get out of it was if you had taken AP CS in high school and passed the test for the credits. A large majority of my CS friends in that class had all been programming for either a little bit or quite some time, and the class was mostly a joke for them. Lectures were optional, and a bunch of friends (including myself) only attended three classes the entire semester: the first class (where we found out we didn't need to go to class except for tests) and the mid term and final. Of course on the other side of things, I had friends who had never programmed before and found the course grueling and struggled to pass.
- auxym 12y ago
  Similar experience in my two first-year Matlab classes in mechanical engineering.
Derander 12y ago
I TA for this class. The class is optional for non-engineering majors but has enrollment >= 700 people per quarter. So many people at Stanford take the class that it's a bit of a cultural phenomenon. There are three "intro" programming classes at Stanford. CS106A is "intro to java", CS106B is "intro to C++", CS106X is CS106A + CS106B + a bit more in one quarter. People who already know how to program are encouraged to take one of the latter two, although there is always a contingent of people with /some/ background in 106A.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  For non-engineering people, Java seems like a slightly odd choice, is it not? So much overhead in learning, plus overhead if they did want to integrate coding into their lives in a light way. Why not Racket or a scripting language? As much as it pains me, even JS might be of better use. Or is it just the case that these people just wanna take one course from the "real" CS for a non-coding reason?