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I'm sorry, but I vehemently disagree. I depend for my livelihood on my -- aboveboard! -- Internet connection. Yet I also expect to be permitted to express a d

by Vivtek 17y ago

I'm sorry, but I vehemently disagree. I depend for my livelihood on my -- aboveboard! -- Internet connection. Yet I also expect to be permitted to express a dissenting political opinion. This type of treaty gives authorities and anyone with a large legal team the instant ability not just to shut me up simply by accusing me of copyright violation - with no burden of proof - but to ruin me financially as well. That is not democracy. Not even close. Political dissent is not just something done by free Tibetans way off in the distance, and it's not the exclusive purview of dedicated activists who have the time to set up darknets. Political dissent is everybody feeling free enough to disagree with the powers that be. This really and truly endangers that, and it's incredibly, incredibly stupid for the American government even to consider it. That the Obama Administration is not only considering it, but actively supporting it by keeping the process secret for as long as humanly possible is profoundly disappointing.

tshtf 17y ago
I agree with you almost entirely, but I feel there is no dichotomy here. There is room for several strategies to approach this treaty. There is the need for dissent within in the political sphere for this treaty, and I'm certain that many activists will take this strategy up. There's also room for technological dissent; for citizens to develop strategies and technologies to mitigate the effects if this treaty does go into effect. We're all in the same boat.
- Vivtek 17y ago
  True enough; it's just that in technical venues one always has the feeling that people still consider the political process to be irrelevant, that the Internet has stopped the business cycle and so on. And it just keeps not being true.
johnnybgoode 17y ago
> That is not democracy. Not even close. Why is that not democracy? What does democracy have to do with it? I often see the word "democracy" used as if it means "freedom".
- kls 17y ago
  >"What does democracy have to do with it" democracy = everybody gets a vote. If we where a democracy, I did not get to vote, because I was not allowed to see the text of the subject to make an informed decision. Anyway, we are not a democracy we are a republic which is evident by the fact that I did not get a vote on the issue. The elected leaders did and this is the problem with a republic over a democracy, someone is doing the voting for you and after that someone has received your vote to put them their they tend to forget about the people that got them there.
  - salvadors 17y ago
    You seem to be confusing several different concepts. Most countries have representative democracy, rather than direct democracy. This is largely orthogonal to the issue of being a republic, which (in this context, and in over-simplified terms) simply means that there are certain things that even a majority vote can't achieve, as the majority is also bound by the Constitution (in an attempt to avoid the classic problem of two wolves and a sheep voting for what to have for dinner)
    - forensic 17y ago
      a constitutional republic != a republic != a democracy != representative democracy
      - eru 17y ago
        And pairwise, too.
    - gnaritas 17y ago
      simply means that there are certain things that even a majority vote can't achieve, as the majority is also bound by the Constitution Not really, even the Constitution is amendable by a super majority. You should have said a simple majority.
- ajb 17y ago
  You can't really have democracy without freedom.

by Vivtek 17y ago

tshtf 17y ago

I agree with you almost entirely, but I feel there is no dichotomy here. There is room for several strategies to approach this treaty. There is the need for dissent within in the political sphere for this treaty, and I'm certain that many activists will take this strategy up. There's also room for technological dissent; for citizens to develop strategies and technologies to mitigate the effects if this treaty does go into effect. We're all in the same boat.

Vivtek 17y ago
True enough; it's just that in technical venues one always has the feeling that people still consider the political process to be irrelevant, that the Internet has stopped the business cycle and so on. And it just keeps not being true.

johnnybgoode 17y ago

> That is not democracy. Not even close. Why is that not democracy? What does democracy have to do with it? I often see the word "democracy" used as if it means "freedom".

kls 17y ago
>"What does democracy have to do with it" democracy = everybody gets a vote. If we where a democracy, I did not get to vote, because I was not allowed to see the text of the subject to make an informed decision. Anyway, we are not a democracy we are a republic which is evident by the fact that I did not get a vote on the issue. The elected leaders did and this is the problem with a republic over a democracy, someone is doing the voting for you and after that someone has received your vote to put them their they tend to forget about the people that got them there.
- salvadors 17y ago
  You seem to be confusing several different concepts. Most countries have representative democracy, rather than direct democracy. This is largely orthogonal to the issue of being a republic, which (in this context, and in over-simplified terms) simply means that there are certain things that even a majority vote can't achieve, as the majority is also bound by the Constitution (in an attempt to avoid the classic problem of two wolves and a sheep voting for what to have for dinner)
  - forensic 17y ago
    a constitutional republic != a republic != a democracy != representative democracy
    - eru 17y ago
      And pairwise, too.
  - gnaritas 17y ago
    simply means that there are certain things that even a majority vote can't achieve, as the majority is also bound by the Constitution Not really, even the Constitution is amendable by a super majority. You should have said a simple majority.
ajb 17y ago
You can't really have democracy without freedom.