4 ms·

This is a perfect example of why rent control is a terrible system that leads to market inefficiencies and worse outcomes for a community. The law has made it m

This is a perfect example of why rent control is a terrible system that leads to market inefficiencies and worse outcomes for a community. The law has made it more profitable for this landlord to remove housing stock and charge market rate for the remaining unit than to rent out both units in the building under rent control laws. Cities with low vacancy rates like SF need to rethink their approach to housing if they want to remain attractive places to live.

javert 12y ago
Completely agree with you. However, I think SF has already ceased to be an attractive place to live. I don't live there, so maybe it's not a fair comment, but I would not want to live there for the same reason I don't like flushing money down the toilet.
- gwillen 12y ago
  > I think SF has already ceased to be an attractive place to live. Or as Yogi Berra allegedly once said: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
- zobzu 12y ago
  it certainly isnt super attractive for new comers. - rent is very high, and the higher salary won't compensate all that much (salaries didn't move up as fast as the rent) - its crowded, expect queues everywhere, and traffic. Lots of traffic.
nodesocket 12y ago
If not for rent control, my studio apartment would be over $3,000 a month. Everyday I thank rent control.
- meddlepal 12y ago
  So what? Why do you think you should get to live somewhere highly desireable at a below market rate?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - remarkEon 12y ago
      You are conflating two very, very different issues.
    - joeclark77 12y ago
      Surely you jest.
    - s0uthPaw88 12y ago
      You are correct that removing rent control would not completely solve the problem. The underlying reason for the increase in rent prices (and thus the need for rent control) is that there is a fixed supply of housing. The city has strict zoning laws that have limited the ability to build up[1]. Without a way to increase the supply of housing the only way for the market to reach equilibrium is for prices to rise. So to make prices reasonable, both zoning laws and rent control will have to be reworked. (1)http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco_zoning_needs_more_density_and_tall_buildings.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco...
  - phil248 12y ago
    Many people think they should be able to live in a place they can afford with the reasonable expectation that it will be their home for the foreseeable future. Many benefits, to both the economy and society at large, come from ensuring the populace in general is able to find stable housing. While San Francisco's rent control may be too stringent for its own good, there are many reasons to support a more reasonable rent stabilization policy in a jurisdiction with unstable rental prices.
    - nedwin 12y ago
      Rent control increases the pressure on the housing market by increasing the price of rent for non-rent controlled properties and reducing incentives to create more supply. Brief overview from Krugman from 2000 but plenty more research out there on the topic. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-affair.html http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-...
- randyrand 12y ago
  And what about everyone else? That is an extremely selfish view. Rent control stifles new construction, and allows you to live in relative luxury at the expense of others. Let me ask you, if rent control is the solution to high rent, why not introduce legislation to cut all current rent rates in half?
  - Aloisius 12y ago
    > Rent control stifles new construction Rent control in San Francisco only applies to buildings built before June 1979. Landlords of buildings built after that are free to increase rent as they wish. If anything, it should promote more construction.
    - nedwin 12y ago
      Unfortunately tenant unions and some politicians have been threatening to expand the definition of rent control for quite some time. This increases the risk that buildings built after that period are going to get locked down into rent control after the fact.
      - simoncion 12y ago
        Do you believe that that's a contributing factor to the lack of new construction in San Francisco? If so, is it a larger factor than the insane city-wide height restrictions and strong anti-development lobby? (If you'd like to point a finger at the folks who obstruct demolition of rent-controlled units to construct new units, I point you to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9210429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9210429 ) :)
        nedwin 12y ago
        It's definitely a factor in new construction in San Francisco. I wouldn't say it's a larger factor than the anti-development lobby but I think the anti-development lobby and the rent control lobby are closely aligned. Height restrictions are another factor, as is the requirements around affordable housing.
- brc 12y ago
  At least you seem to be acknowledging your luck in being protected by law against market prices. You should take advantage of your situation and save the money you are spared by law, so the day that the law stops protecting you, you have a buffer.

javert 12y ago

Completely agree with you. However, I think SF has already ceased to be an attractive place to live. I don't live there, so maybe it's not a fair comment, but I would not want to live there for the same reason I don't like flushing money down the toilet.

gwillen 12y ago
> I think SF has already ceased to be an attractive place to live. Or as Yogi Berra allegedly once said: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
zobzu 12y ago
it certainly isnt super attractive for new comers. - rent is very high, and the higher salary won't compensate all that much (salaries didn't move up as fast as the rent) - its crowded, expect queues everywhere, and traffic. Lots of traffic.

nodesocket 12y ago

If not for rent control, my studio apartment would be over $3,000 a month. Everyday I thank rent control.

meddlepal 12y ago
So what? Why do you think you should get to live somewhere highly desireable at a below market rate?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - remarkEon 12y ago
    You are conflating two very, very different issues.
  - joeclark77 12y ago
    Surely you jest.
  - s0uthPaw88 12y ago
    You are correct that removing rent control would not completely solve the problem. The underlying reason for the increase in rent prices (and thus the need for rent control) is that there is a fixed supply of housing. The city has strict zoning laws that have limited the ability to build up[1]. Without a way to increase the supply of housing the only way for the market to reach equilibrium is for prices to rise. So to make prices reasonable, both zoning laws and rent control will have to be reworked. (1)http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco_zoning_needs_more_density_and_tall_buildings.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco...
- phil248 12y ago
  Many people think they should be able to live in a place they can afford with the reasonable expectation that it will be their home for the foreseeable future. Many benefits, to both the economy and society at large, come from ensuring the populace in general is able to find stable housing. While San Francisco's rent control may be too stringent for its own good, there are many reasons to support a more reasonable rent stabilization policy in a jurisdiction with unstable rental prices.
  - nedwin 12y ago
    Rent control increases the pressure on the housing market by increasing the price of rent for non-rent controlled properties and reducing incentives to create more supply. Brief overview from Krugman from 2000 but plenty more research out there on the topic. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-affair.html http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-...
randyrand 12y ago
And what about everyone else? That is an extremely selfish view. Rent control stifles new construction, and allows you to live in relative luxury at the expense of others. Let me ask you, if rent control is the solution to high rent, why not introduce legislation to cut all current rent rates in half?
- Aloisius 12y ago
  > Rent control stifles new construction Rent control in San Francisco only applies to buildings built before June 1979. Landlords of buildings built after that are free to increase rent as they wish. If anything, it should promote more construction.
  - nedwin 12y ago
    Unfortunately tenant unions and some politicians have been threatening to expand the definition of rent control for quite some time. This increases the risk that buildings built after that period are going to get locked down into rent control after the fact.
    - simoncion 12y ago
      Do you believe that that's a contributing factor to the lack of new construction in San Francisco? If so, is it a larger factor than the insane city-wide height restrictions and strong anti-development lobby? (If you'd like to point a finger at the folks who obstruct demolition of rent-controlled units to construct new units, I point you to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9210429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9210429 ) :)
      - nedwin 12y ago
        It's definitely a factor in new construction in San Francisco. I wouldn't say it's a larger factor than the anti-development lobby but I think the anti-development lobby and the rent control lobby are closely aligned. Height restrictions are another factor, as is the requirements around affordable housing.
brc 12y ago
At least you seem to be acknowledging your luck in being protected by law against market prices. You should take advantage of your situation and save the money you are spared by law, so the day that the law stops protecting you, you have a buffer.