5 ms·

> Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future. [citation needed]

moron4hire 12y ago
Respectfully, I don't think you'll find much sympathy here on HN with a reply in that vein, even from people who would agree with you.
- anonbanker 12y ago
  I find it amusing that asking for source, using wikipedia's standard, is considered ”tone” of any sort, let alone a rude one. No offense was intended in the grandparent.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    I know I certainly consider that specific reply to be flippant, and I know there are others who do as well. I don't know if it's the general opinion of people on the Internet to view it as flippant, but at least on HN, the general culture is to not use Reddit-esque short-form replies, and to articulate a full response that uses your own words. Wikipedia isn't exactly known for being a welcoming community.
    - __david__ 12y ago
      I think what sets it apart in my mind is the "needed". In a Wikipedia article aiming to be authoritative and correct it may very well be "needed", but in a HN comment it is not "needed", it is "requested". Perhaps even "humbly requested". And the conflation of those 2 words tend to make the requester come off as judgmental/abrasive. Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.
  - Aldo_MX 12y ago
    It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.
    - moron4hire 12y ago
      Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessary to argue on what is most effective. Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.
      - Aldo_MX 12y ago
        In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias. But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.
melling 12y ago
It was COMDEX in Las Vegas. He gave the keynote. http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new-tablet/2100-1001_3-248474.html http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new... http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-pc-xbox-at-comdex-says-new-digital-decade-technologies-will-transform-how-we-live/ http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...
- anonbanker 12y ago
  Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for. Totally worth the downvotes for asking.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    You didn't get downvoted for asking. You got downvoted for the way you asked. [citation needed] is incredibly rude.
    - anonbanker 12y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207078

moron4hire 12y ago

Respectfully, I don't think you'll find much sympathy here on HN with a reply in that vein, even from people who would agree with you.

anonbanker 12y ago
I find it amusing that asking for source, using wikipedia's standard, is considered ”tone” of any sort, let alone a rude one. No offense was intended in the grandparent.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  I know I certainly consider that specific reply to be flippant, and I know there are others who do as well. I don't know if it's the general opinion of people on the Internet to view it as flippant, but at least on HN, the general culture is to not use Reddit-esque short-form replies, and to articulate a full response that uses your own words. Wikipedia isn't exactly known for being a welcoming community.
  - __david__ 12y ago
    I think what sets it apart in my mind is the "needed". In a Wikipedia article aiming to be authoritative and correct it may very well be "needed", but in a HN comment it is not "needed", it is "requested". Perhaps even "humbly requested". And the conflation of those 2 words tend to make the requester come off as judgmental/abrasive. Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.
- Aldo_MX 12y ago
  It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessary to argue on what is most effective. Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.
    - Aldo_MX 12y ago
      In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias. But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.

melling 12y ago

It was COMDEX in Las Vegas. He gave the keynote. http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new-tablet/2100-1001_3-248474.html http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new... http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-pc-xbox-at-comdex-says-new-digital-decade-technologies-will-transform-how-we-live/ http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...

anonbanker 12y ago
Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for. Totally worth the downvotes for asking.
- freehunter 12y ago
  You didn't get downvoted for asking. You got downvoted for the way you asked. [citation needed] is incredibly rude.
  - anonbanker 12y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207078