5 ms·

It's getting harder and harder to buy traditional high quality mouse and keyboards for PC. Microsoft and Logitech used to produce them. But the look at the cur

by frik 12y ago

It's getting harder and harder to buy traditional high quality mouse and keyboards for PC. Microsoft and Logitech used to produce them. But the look at the current portfolio of Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/mice http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/mice and http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards No traditional keyboard with cable and normal key-layout, no normal mouse like the IntelliMouse or Comfort Mouse 6000 (discontinued because of firmware lag bug). And Logitech portfolio: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice and http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too. Notebooks used to have good keyboards too, like the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T40/T60/T400/T410 series. But recent notebooks from Lenovo//HP/Apple/etc. all have these flat keys :( What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy? The above mentioned products are already so rare one that Amazon.com lists them with a ca. $200 price tag (they used to be reasonable priced in $20-$30 range).

cr3ative 12y ago
It's not harder to buy "traditional high quality" in the keyboard sense - to me, that means buckling spring, and there's a huge market for it at the moment. It is expensive though. Have a search for "Cherry MX" keyboards. Big manufacturers like Corsair have recently launched several traditionally shaped keyboards with these switches.
- tombrossman 12y ago
  The point about mice is dead on though, I wish I'd bought more of the Intellimouse model as I am on my last one (of probably 3-4 total) and the Comfort Mouse 6000 I bought to replace it is not good enough. The slight lag on middle click is forever annoying. Look for some of the better engineered Microsoft mice (now all discontinued) on Amazon for an idea of what kind of prices these are fetching. Some are crazy expensive and I suspect it is because people like me still want them. Edit: Here's a 50-pack for £4500 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-optical/dp/B000I5Y9OU/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-o...
  - eertami 12y ago
    And they are great mice for gaming - I've been using a WMO1.1a for probably a decade, once you stick some custom mousefeet on them they are fantastic.
  - louthy 12y ago
    I am still using my first intellimouse; it must be 15 years old (I actually don't remember exactly when I bought it, but it was a long time ago) - it's absolutely perfect still. I have just ordered another for home (just in case) and two for the office (one for usage, one for backup). It really is a solid bit of kit, and I'd be gutted if I couldn't source one again.
- frik 12y ago
  You mean the 70s/80s IBM keyboard typewriter/console/keyboard - very good quality but with a noise factor. For me the 90s keyboard/mice quality would be enough - as known from the old Microsoft Hardware department, the old Switzerland based Logitech company and IBM Thinkpad keyboards. The 90s/early 2000s hardware has a MTTF of about 10 years. The current 2010s hardware don't fit my needs at all, are overpriced (gaming devices) and have a very low product quality in general. [Edit: ...product quality of Microsoft/Logitech/Lenovo devices]
  - eertami 12y ago
    Very low product quality? I have a Filco Majestouch that I'm pretty sure is going to outlast every peripheral and piece of tech at my desk and survive longer than 10 years. The switches are rated for 50m actuation and the body is fantastically sturdy. I'd even say it is of a higher overall quality than the IBM Model M. Sure, there are lot of shitty overpriced gaming keyboards but if you avoid those brands and get a Filco, Ducky, Das or Leopold for instance, you're getting quality. And most switches except for Blues will be quieter than the 70s/80s IBM era. I'd hate to have to go back to 90s Microsoft keyboards to be completely honest, long lasting maybe but not a nice experience.
    - michaelcampbell 12y ago
      I had a Model M until quite recently (and still have some buckling spring Unicomps), and have switched to blues at work. They're quieter than the M, but not by a lot. A couple guys at work are big mech KB fans too and one bought a Topre based KB - I'm thinking of switching to that. It's nice and worth checking out, even if you end up not liking it.
  - scholia 12y ago
    Please define overpriced. Maybe you earn your living with a keyboard and use it for 8+ hours a day. How much is that worth? Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on a mobile phone + contract when you could get something that does the same job for half the price or less. Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on Starbucks ;-) Is a $100 to $200 mechanical keyboard actually overpriced if it works well for 5 to 10 years or even more?
blumkvist 12y ago
>What traditional cable based keyboards Das, Corsair. >What traditional cable based mices Corsair
- frik 12y ago
  I read everywhere that recent Corsair products have reliability problems (incl. RAPTOR M30). Older generations of the same product lines were better manufactured. With a short life-time they would be not better than recent Microsoft or Logitech hardware products. Hopefully Corsair already replaced some thin plastics parts that acted like predetermined breaking point.
- louhike 12y ago
  Cherry is pretty great for keyboards too, even outside their mechanicals ones.
spain 12y ago
>Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too. The MX518 for me at least lives on as the G400s. I used to own an MX518 and got the G400s recently and it's basically the same thing except with a better surface texture (and higher DPI? I don't really care since I always keep it on the lowest setting). >What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy? I use a ThinkPad T420 which would seem to be the last "traditional" ThinkPad. I mean it's clear it's already going in the direction of the newer laptops but this one still has the traditional keyboard while having up-to-date hardware otherwise. Hopefully by the time that becomes outdated there will be something worth buying on the market... As for my desktop keyboard: IBM Model M, accept no substitutes.
detaro 12y ago
mice: roccat (Yes, they do fancy 100$ gaming mouses, but some of their cheap offerings are great as well)
moe 12y ago
What traditional cable based mice Logitech G9x is the best mouse I've ever used. I didn't even realize how good it is until I went on a quest to find an equally good wireless mouse. Let's just say I'm still wire-bound and still looking... Precision is top-notch, mouse-wheel is great, weight is adjustable, and if you prefer narrow mice (I do) then you can remove the grip-cover[1]. I'd pay a pretty penny for a wireless version of it, but Logitech insists on using different (imho inferior) designs for their wireless mice. [1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAKk/ca_WD6t3HA4/s1600/g9x%2B%25252B%2Ball.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAK...
kabdib 12y ago
I need a "split" keyboard so my choices are relatively limited. The Kinesys Freestyle 2 keyboards (with the tenting) are pretty decent replacements for older members of the Microsoft Natural series. The Kinesys boards are not perfect (the ESC key is a bit far out, and there are 8 special purpose keys on a bank on the left that are useless). But they've got inverted-T and the key feel is good. The MS Natural keyboard line became utter crap with the 4000 and they've just been digging the hole deeper. Mushy keys, bad travel, bad layout, very bad decisions about ESC and F-key sizes. The latest attempt at a real "ergo" keyboard is an unusable embarrassment. I have a couple of the Kinesys boards. I'll probably keep buying Kinesys as these wear out unless MS ships a decent split keyboard (Cherry keys, okay? No mush, right?). Shout out to the keyboard folks at MS: Talk to some of your better engineers about what it takes to make a keyboard that you can touch-type code on. Talk to people who use Eamcs or vi. Build that. It can be $300, but if it's good, I'll buy several. (Let's not talk about the mice quite yet... :-) )
- Namrog84 12y ago
  I've used and loved all the Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. Wired ones anyways. I've never had a problem with them and while I don't ever use any of the special keys or add ons.they don't distract or cause me issues ever.
  - ktsmith 12y ago
    I have half a dozen of the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboards sitting in a closet because I got tired of them discontinuing previous versions right around the time my keyboard would start to have issues or an unfortunate accident would kill one. Really the only ergonomic keyboard they made that I didn't like were the second version of the original ergonomic keyboards labeled with elite. They used a layout where the arrow keys were placed i a + pattern rather than a ⊥

by frik 12y ago

cr3ative 12y ago

It's not harder to buy "traditional high quality" in the keyboard sense - to me, that means buckling spring, and there's a huge market for it at the moment. It is expensive though. Have a search for "Cherry MX" keyboards. Big manufacturers like Corsair have recently launched several traditionally shaped keyboards with these switches.

tombrossman 12y ago
The point about mice is dead on though, I wish I'd bought more of the Intellimouse model as I am on my last one (of probably 3-4 total) and the Comfort Mouse 6000 I bought to replace it is not good enough. The slight lag on middle click is forever annoying. Look for some of the better engineered Microsoft mice (now all discontinued) on Amazon for an idea of what kind of prices these are fetching. Some are crazy expensive and I suspect it is because people like me still want them. Edit: Here's a 50-pack for £4500 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-optical/dp/B000I5Y9OU/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-o...
- eertami 12y ago
  And they are great mice for gaming - I've been using a WMO1.1a for probably a decade, once you stick some custom mousefeet on them they are fantastic.
- louthy 12y ago
  I am still using my first intellimouse; it must be 15 years old (I actually don't remember exactly when I bought it, but it was a long time ago) - it's absolutely perfect still. I have just ordered another for home (just in case) and two for the office (one for usage, one for backup). It really is a solid bit of kit, and I'd be gutted if I couldn't source one again.
frik 12y ago
You mean the 70s/80s IBM keyboard typewriter/console/keyboard - very good quality but with a noise factor. For me the 90s keyboard/mice quality would be enough - as known from the old Microsoft Hardware department, the old Switzerland based Logitech company and IBM Thinkpad keyboards. The 90s/early 2000s hardware has a MTTF of about 10 years. The current 2010s hardware don't fit my needs at all, are overpriced (gaming devices) and have a very low product quality in general. [Edit: ...product quality of Microsoft/Logitech/Lenovo devices]
- eertami 12y ago
  Very low product quality? I have a Filco Majestouch that I'm pretty sure is going to outlast every peripheral and piece of tech at my desk and survive longer than 10 years. The switches are rated for 50m actuation and the body is fantastically sturdy. I'd even say it is of a higher overall quality than the IBM Model M. Sure, there are lot of shitty overpriced gaming keyboards but if you avoid those brands and get a Filco, Ducky, Das or Leopold for instance, you're getting quality. And most switches except for Blues will be quieter than the 70s/80s IBM era. I'd hate to have to go back to 90s Microsoft keyboards to be completely honest, long lasting maybe but not a nice experience.
  - michaelcampbell 12y ago
    I had a Model M until quite recently (and still have some buckling spring Unicomps), and have switched to blues at work. They're quieter than the M, but not by a lot. A couple guys at work are big mech KB fans too and one bought a Topre based KB - I'm thinking of switching to that. It's nice and worth checking out, even if you end up not liking it.
- scholia 12y ago
  Please define overpriced. Maybe you earn your living with a keyboard and use it for 8+ hours a day. How much is that worth? Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on a mobile phone + contract when you could get something that does the same job for half the price or less. Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on Starbucks ;-) Is a $100 to $200 mechanical keyboard actually overpriced if it works well for 5 to 10 years or even more?

blumkvist 12y ago

>What traditional cable based keyboards Das, Corsair. >What traditional cable based mices Corsair

frik 12y ago
I read everywhere that recent Corsair products have reliability problems (incl. RAPTOR M30). Older generations of the same product lines were better manufactured. With a short life-time they would be not better than recent Microsoft or Logitech hardware products. Hopefully Corsair already replaced some thin plastics parts that acted like predetermined breaking point.
louhike 12y ago
Cherry is pretty great for keyboards too, even outside their mechanicals ones.

spain 12y ago

>Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too. The MX518 for me at least lives on as the G400s. I used to own an MX518 and got the G400s recently and it's basically the same thing except with a better surface texture (and higher DPI? I don't really care since I always keep it on the lowest setting). >What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy? I use a ThinkPad T420 which would seem to be the last "traditional" ThinkPad. I mean it's clear it's already going in the direction of the newer laptops but this one still has the traditional keyboard while having up-to-date hardware otherwise. Hopefully by the time that becomes outdated there will be something worth buying on the market... As for my desktop keyboard: IBM Model M, accept no substitutes.

detaro 12y ago

mice: roccat (Yes, they do fancy 100$ gaming mouses, but some of their cheap offerings are great as well)

moe 12y ago

What traditional cable based mice Logitech G9x is the best mouse I've ever used. I didn't even realize how good it is until I went on a quest to find an equally good wireless mouse. Let's just say I'm still wire-bound and still looking... Precision is top-notch, mouse-wheel is great, weight is adjustable, and if you prefer narrow mice (I do) then you can remove the grip-cover[1]. I'd pay a pretty penny for a wireless version of it, but Logitech insists on using different (imho inferior) designs for their wireless mice. [1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAKk/ca_WD6t3HA4/s1600/g9x%2B%25252B%2Ball.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAK...

kabdib 12y ago

I need a "split" keyboard so my choices are relatively limited. The Kinesys Freestyle 2 keyboards (with the tenting) are pretty decent replacements for older members of the Microsoft Natural series. The Kinesys boards are not perfect (the ESC key is a bit far out, and there are 8 special purpose keys on a bank on the left that are useless). But they've got inverted-T and the key feel is good. The MS Natural keyboard line became utter crap with the 4000 and they've just been digging the hole deeper. Mushy keys, bad travel, bad layout, very bad decisions about ESC and F-key sizes. The latest attempt at a real "ergo" keyboard is an unusable embarrassment. I have a couple of the Kinesys boards. I'll probably keep buying Kinesys as these wear out unless MS ships a decent split keyboard (Cherry keys, okay? No mush, right?). Shout out to the keyboard folks at MS: Talk to some of your better engineers about what it takes to make a keyboard that you can touch-type code on. Talk to people who use Eamcs or vi. Build that. It can be $300, but if it's good, I'll buy several. (Let's not talk about the mice quite yet... :-) )

Namrog84 12y ago
I've used and loved all the Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. Wired ones anyways. I've never had a problem with them and while I don't ever use any of the special keys or add ons.they don't distract or cause me issues ever.
- ktsmith 12y ago
  I have half a dozen of the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboards sitting in a closet because I got tired of them discontinuing previous versions right around the time my keyboard would start to have issues or an unfortunate accident would kill one. Really the only ergonomic keyboard they made that I didn't like were the second version of the original ergonomic keyboards labeled with elite. They used a layout where the arrow keys were placed i a + pattern rather than a ⊥