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Am I really that rare that I treasure people above all others who will speak to me directly if they don't like something? With the themes in this article and o

Am I really that rare that I treasure people above all others who will speak to me directly if they don't like something? With the themes in this article and others like it, are they how you should behave if you want to meet your own goals, or about how people you're subordinate to prefer you behave, in order to not rock the boat too much?

Joeri 12y ago
Egoless programming is about accepting that you are flawed, your knowledge is flawed and your work is flawed, and then drawing appropriate conclusions from that. That's how you get to "critique code, not people", because everyone is flawed, and almost all work is flawed, so there's no point blaming people for their flaws. The focus should be on the flaw and how to get rid of it, not the person whose flaw it is. You are indeed rare for being able to take direct criticism of your work and respond in a constructive way.
mwfunk 12y ago
The thing is, EVERYBODY thinks this about themselves by default, not just you. Nobody is sitting there thinking that they wish people would just sugarcoat everything for them and be as passive-aggressive and indirect as possible. Likewise, everybody probably feels like they have to be this way when interacting with other people, and that that can be burdensome sometimes. It can be very, very different when you're actually in that situation though, and your boss is giving you the Torvaldsing that you always thought you wanted. If there is even a teensy part of you that thinks your boss is a jerk, or that they don't respect you, or that you know more about whatever it is that they're Torvaldsing you about, that part of you is being given a golden opportunity to assert itself really hard. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it's human nature and why spark the flint if you don't have to. I thought I was completely immune to this kind of defensiveness for most of my life, and it wasn't until I got into my 40s that I realized that it was always there. Another way of looking at is, what is gained by being as blunt as possible, as opposed to the rules in this article? I'd say nothing. Nothing recommended here makes communication any more ambiguous or time-consuming. In fact it's about being more clear about what exactly you are discussing.
- Bahamut 12y ago
  There are different approaches to being direct - one can be brutally blunt while still having the recipient maintain dignity. I prefer this approach in general - the trick is if the person does not take it well, then you stress that it is not personal, or meant that they are necessarily a bad developer. It is shocking to be on the receiving end, but it forces the person to think about it more and internalize it better. I have seen it give great results for people's subsequent code, including my own. The developers have all thanked me for it and feel the approach has helped them grow immensely.
EdwardDiego 12y ago
> Am I really that rare that I treasure people above all others who will speak to me directly if they don't like something? You could well be. People vary. One senior dev I work with can never accept direct criticism, he just shuts down and gets very defensive and adversarial. But then another senior dev's preferred mode of discussion is yelling and hand-waving, and it took me a bit to learn that I had to yell and hand-wave back to get him to listen to me.

Joeri 12y ago

Egoless programming is about accepting that you are flawed, your knowledge is flawed and your work is flawed, and then drawing appropriate conclusions from that. That's how you get to "critique code, not people", because everyone is flawed, and almost all work is flawed, so there's no point blaming people for their flaws. The focus should be on the flaw and how to get rid of it, not the person whose flaw it is. You are indeed rare for being able to take direct criticism of your work and respond in a constructive way.

mwfunk 12y ago

The thing is, EVERYBODY thinks this about themselves by default, not just you. Nobody is sitting there thinking that they wish people would just sugarcoat everything for them and be as passive-aggressive and indirect as possible. Likewise, everybody probably feels like they have to be this way when interacting with other people, and that that can be burdensome sometimes. It can be very, very different when you're actually in that situation though, and your boss is giving you the Torvaldsing that you always thought you wanted. If there is even a teensy part of you that thinks your boss is a jerk, or that they don't respect you, or that you know more about whatever it is that they're Torvaldsing you about, that part of you is being given a golden opportunity to assert itself really hard. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it's human nature and why spark the flint if you don't have to. I thought I was completely immune to this kind of defensiveness for most of my life, and it wasn't until I got into my 40s that I realized that it was always there. Another way of looking at is, what is gained by being as blunt as possible, as opposed to the rules in this article? I'd say nothing. Nothing recommended here makes communication any more ambiguous or time-consuming. In fact it's about being more clear about what exactly you are discussing.

Bahamut 12y ago
There are different approaches to being direct - one can be brutally blunt while still having the recipient maintain dignity. I prefer this approach in general - the trick is if the person does not take it well, then you stress that it is not personal, or meant that they are necessarily a bad developer. It is shocking to be on the receiving end, but it forces the person to think about it more and internalize it better. I have seen it give great results for people's subsequent code, including my own. The developers have all thanked me for it and feel the approach has helped them grow immensely.

EdwardDiego 12y ago

> Am I really that rare that I treasure people above all others who will speak to me directly if they don't like something? You could well be. People vary. One senior dev I work with can never accept direct criticism, he just shuts down and gets very defensive and adversarial. But then another senior dev's preferred mode of discussion is yelling and hand-waving, and it took me a bit to learn that I had to yell and hand-wave back to get him to listen to me.