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Exactly what you said. The other part that got me was his "as an entry-level programmer, be prepared for grinding, endless tedium." Maybe that's how his workpl

Exactly what you said. The other part that got me was his "as an entry-level programmer, be prepared for grinding, endless tedium." Maybe that's how his workplace treats junior devs, but the reality is that a developer with very little experience but a lot of skill is someone who can add a lot of value, and can find a workplace where they'll be able to do that. If you try to make a great junior dev "pay their dues," well, they have better options, with companies that will use them more sensibly.

dcosson 12y ago
I see where you're coming from, but in context I don't think the author was advocating for treating junior devs badly on purpose. More like everyone ends up banging their head against the wall sometimes as a developer, and you should be prepared for that if you're a new programmer and considering doing it as a career. In some sense it is paying dues but it's not imposed by anyone else, it's just that the less experienced you are the more often you get stuck. His related advice actually really resonated with me, basically just to be humble. "However with one or maybe two of the students I sensed overbearing confidence that now that could write some code and create prototypes they were valuable commodities in the industry." I've also come across this kind of person who's sure they can do no wrong, and there's no one worse to bring into an organization. Anybody that's gonna come in and do things their own way, not bothering to spend time learning how the team and codebase works and why, will cause a lot of friction. But when it's a junior dev it can be a lot more destructive because "their own way" will often be flat out bad as opposed to just incongruent with the way the rest of the team works.
frostmatthew 12y ago
> The other part that got me was his "as an entry-level programmer, be prepared for grinding, endless tedium." Tediousness is in the eye of the beholder. I enjoy coding, and as a junior developer (~3 years exp.) I get to spend the majority of my time doing that. When I look at the more senior developers all I see is that the better you get at writing software the less they have you write. Their days are filled with meetings, emails, triaging bugs, and reviewing other people's code.
datashovel 12y ago
If this is the case, it sounds like OP does not adhere to "KISS" or "DRY" principles. On the contrary, anyone who is going to take up space in my office better not be engaging in "endless tedium". It's a sure sign they're not doing their job right.

dcosson 12y ago

I see where you're coming from, but in context I don't think the author was advocating for treating junior devs badly on purpose. More like everyone ends up banging their head against the wall sometimes as a developer, and you should be prepared for that if you're a new programmer and considering doing it as a career. In some sense it is paying dues but it's not imposed by anyone else, it's just that the less experienced you are the more often you get stuck. His related advice actually really resonated with me, basically just to be humble. "However with one or maybe two of the students I sensed overbearing confidence that now that could write some code and create prototypes they were valuable commodities in the industry." I've also come across this kind of person who's sure they can do no wrong, and there's no one worse to bring into an organization. Anybody that's gonna come in and do things their own way, not bothering to spend time learning how the team and codebase works and why, will cause a lot of friction. But when it's a junior dev it can be a lot more destructive because "their own way" will often be flat out bad as opposed to just incongruent with the way the rest of the team works.

frostmatthew 12y ago

> The other part that got me was his "as an entry-level programmer, be prepared for grinding, endless tedium." Tediousness is in the eye of the beholder. I enjoy coding, and as a junior developer (~3 years exp.) I get to spend the majority of my time doing that. When I look at the more senior developers all I see is that the better you get at writing software the less they have you write. Their days are filled with meetings, emails, triaging bugs, and reviewing other people's code.

datashovel 12y ago

If this is the case, it sounds like OP does not adhere to "KISS" or "DRY" principles. On the contrary, anyone who is going to take up space in my office better not be engaging in "endless tedium". It's a sure sign they're not doing their job right.