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It's not only ageist. As long as developers keep accepting that they have to spend 15 hours a month on their own dime just to keep up, it's outright exploitativ

by marvin 12y ago

It's not only ageist. As long as developers keep accepting that they have to spend 15 hours a month on their own dime just to keep up, it's outright exploitative. Developers are generally expected to keep current in the breakneck technology rat race with no support from their employing organization. This could (maybe) be considered reasonable if technology moved more slowly, but not the way the world of computer software works. It's one thing if you're a consultant in a web development position where your team is constantly jumping from the previous best practice to the next; keeping up in such an environment is easy and you'll get paid to do it. The problem occurs if you're in (e.g.) a back-end position where your job duties require you to focus on slower-moving technologies that might have lesser demand in the market. What happens if you lose your job after 5 years? Unless you spent all your weekends working with the latest hot frameworks, you're (mostly) screwed. There was a good essay a while ago which stated that software developers need a professional association. If we were organized, we could put forward the very reasonable demand that a small portion of our on-the-clock time should be spent for education. I think this is a requirement if we are not aiming for a world of 40-year old burnouts and early retirees.

alphapapa 12y ago
That's a very good point. Other fields have Continuing Education, sabbaticals, in-service training, etc. (e.g. medicine, education). But then, computers and software change so much more rapidly--and arbitrarily--than other fields, that it's very different. Software is as much art as science, and a lot of "keeping up-to-date" with software is simply learning whatever is popular at the moment, not what is necessarily more advanced, better, or newly discovered.
tbrownaw 12y ago
As long as developers keep accepting that they have to spend 15 hours a month on their own dime just to keep up, it's outright exploitative. Why? How is this any different from working an extra... 4 hours a week? It sounds like long hours are fairly common, and we tend to be on salary and not get paid extra for that either.
- marvin 12y ago
  I think the US system of salaried employees and no overtime restrictions (or even pay) encourages exploitation in the first place, so that is my background for making this statement. I live and work in Europe, and I will never work for any US-based company that does not place firm restrictions on how overtime is managed. Most US companies simply have the wrong incentives in place. But yes, having the legal right to take 4 hours a week out of your schedule to stay up-to-date would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
gaius 12y ago
If you've done C++ or DB2 or something for 5 years or 10 years or 20 years you will have no trouble finding the next gig. Because these skills genuinely do take time to develop, and people with the tenacity to do it are rare.

by marvin 12y ago

alphapapa 12y ago

That's a very good point. Other fields have Continuing Education, sabbaticals, in-service training, etc. (e.g. medicine, education). But then, computers and software change so much more rapidly--and arbitrarily--than other fields, that it's very different. Software is as much art as science, and a lot of "keeping up-to-date" with software is simply learning whatever is popular at the moment, not what is necessarily more advanced, better, or newly discovered.

tbrownaw 12y ago

As long as developers keep accepting that they have to spend 15 hours a month on their own dime just to keep up, it's outright exploitative. Why? How is this any different from working an extra... 4 hours a week? It sounds like long hours are fairly common, and we tend to be on salary and not get paid extra for that either.

marvin 12y ago
I think the US system of salaried employees and no overtime restrictions (or even pay) encourages exploitation in the first place, so that is my background for making this statement. I live and work in Europe, and I will never work for any US-based company that does not place firm restrictions on how overtime is managed. Most US companies simply have the wrong incentives in place. But yes, having the legal right to take 4 hours a week out of your schedule to stay up-to-date would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.

gaius 12y ago

If you've done C++ or DB2 or something for 5 years or 10 years or 20 years you will have no trouble finding the next gig. Because these skills genuinely do take time to develop, and people with the tenacity to do it are rare.