5 ms·

I don't know about other people, but as an early web developer who worked in an all-Microsoft shop, learning about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_

I don't know about other people, but as an early web developer who worked in an all-Microsoft shop, learning about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish literally caused me nausea and I quit my job and became an open source developer very soon after and never looked back. There was something so entirely... wrong about that approach. And the browser that was involved with it. And the company that even conceived of it. I still harbor plenty of anti-MS anger as a result (well that, and having to do IE compatibility for many years!) (I admit that also reading the books "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" and "Hackers & Painters" influenced me a lot!)

vdnkh 12y ago
>Literally caused me nausea This is off topic but seriously? You actually felt like you were going to vomit due to a business tactic?
- idm 12y ago
  They didn't say it figuratively caused them nausea, so...
  - bryondowd 12y ago
    Didn't you know? In the 21st century, the word 'literally' means figuratively. If he meant to mean literally, he would have said... well, I honestly don't know how to indicate that something is to be interpreted literally rather than figuratively now. What a world.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  Ideology's a hell of a drug.
- lectrick 12y ago
  I am a really opinionated/principled developer who cares deeply about my work. I quit my last job because I could tell my boss had perverse incentives that he wouldn't admit to. I knew the codebase needed a refactor desperately and he insisted I work on something else (because he was leaving and didn't want to rock the boat). I can't work under those conditions. Turns out I was right... After I left, he announced he was leaving... right after his RSU's vested.
  - splintercell 12y ago
    I am a developer like you, but I feel that it is my moral responsibility to let an employer feel the pain of bad code. When customers start to leave because they hate the way things work, that's when the business bow downs to a refactor.
    - Moru 12y ago
      But if you are the developer it's your fault, not the boss fault. This is why many leave before it bites them.
    - lectrick 12y ago
      Dude you know YOU will take the heat in that case. NOT your boss. This is why I had to quit. If I can't stand behind my damn work and you not get out of my damn way, I'm leaving. And if you've never clashed with your boss over ideological or philosophical issues (either productively or destructively), then I dare say you may not care very much about your work. (Or maybe, not far enough along in a career to have enough to say about it yet. I've been doing this for 18 years. I think that if you get to the point I got, where you care more about your work than your next paycheck... that that is a good thing.) There were actually MANY times when I clashed productively with this guy. I respected him and he respected me. In fact I know that in the final battle we were both simply acting rationally. The directions were just completely at odds. And that is why I harbor no grudge or ill will towards that guy. Hell I'd probably have a beer with him still. I bet you that guy still respects me. It was just time to go.
- cgag 12y ago
  I don't know about nausea but if that doesn't cause some kind of anger or disgust you've got problems.
  - benihana 12y ago
    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
    - wtetzner 12y ago
      I don't mind people going faster or slower than me as long as they're in the right lane.
  - lectrick 12y ago
    I wouldn't say "problems"... just different motivations. We can start an entire conversation about how some people care more about their careers than their paychecks and about how some people don't, and about how still OTHER people can't even afford to care more about their careers than their paychecks. I don't judge. I just know how _I_ felt.
- pjbrunet 12y ago
  Work and life purpose, not far from marriage and family in the hierarchy of things, depending on your beliefs.
- ergothus 12y ago
  It doesn't seem too unbelievable. I often feel physical symptoms from emotions, and judging from idioms (butterflys in the stomach, etc) it's not unusual. That a business tactic based not on making a better product but instead hurting the market would shock someone unused to such matters seems perfectly reasonable. To feel you were supporting that would just make it worse.
- lectrick 12y ago
  I was going to revisit use of that word but going back... yeah, it was seriously at least a little like that. I started to dread going into work. I perhaps wasn't full-on going to retch, but it was definitely inducing. It was also my first job out of college and I was wet behind the ears and perhaps not aware that the real world can be a cold and harsh place.
- ufo 12y ago
  While the parent post was probably referring to this figuratively, when we think of something repulsive we actually activate the same part of the limbic system in brain that we use to feel repulsed when we smell something rotten. In a way, our frontal cortex is hijacking the legacy "run away from smelly stuff" system instead of recreating it from scratch. This also extends to other systems as well: when someone is "hungry for success" they are using the same part of the brain that makes you hungry for food.
- nocman 12y ago
  If only there was someone to restore balance to the universe ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jh4Mpgbi4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jh4Mpgbi4A :-D

vdnkh 12y ago

>Literally caused me nausea This is off topic but seriously? You actually felt like you were going to vomit due to a business tactic?

idm 12y ago
They didn't say it figuratively caused them nausea, so...
- bryondowd 12y ago
  Didn't you know? In the 21st century, the word 'literally' means figuratively. If he meant to mean literally, he would have said... well, I honestly don't know how to indicate that something is to be interpreted literally rather than figuratively now. What a world.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Ideology's a hell of a drug.
lectrick 12y ago
I am a really opinionated/principled developer who cares deeply about my work. I quit my last job because I could tell my boss had perverse incentives that he wouldn't admit to. I knew the codebase needed a refactor desperately and he insisted I work on something else (because he was leaving and didn't want to rock the boat). I can't work under those conditions. Turns out I was right... After I left, he announced he was leaving... right after his RSU's vested.
- splintercell 12y ago
  I am a developer like you, but I feel that it is my moral responsibility to let an employer feel the pain of bad code. When customers start to leave because they hate the way things work, that's when the business bow downs to a refactor.
  - Moru 12y ago
    But if you are the developer it's your fault, not the boss fault. This is why many leave before it bites them.
  - lectrick 12y ago
    Dude you know YOU will take the heat in that case. NOT your boss. This is why I had to quit. If I can't stand behind my damn work and you not get out of my damn way, I'm leaving. And if you've never clashed with your boss over ideological or philosophical issues (either productively or destructively), then I dare say you may not care very much about your work. (Or maybe, not far enough along in a career to have enough to say about it yet. I've been doing this for 18 years. I think that if you get to the point I got, where you care more about your work than your next paycheck... that that is a good thing.) There were actually MANY times when I clashed productively with this guy. I respected him and he respected me. In fact I know that in the final battle we were both simply acting rationally. The directions were just completely at odds. And that is why I harbor no grudge or ill will towards that guy. Hell I'd probably have a beer with him still. I bet you that guy still respects me. It was just time to go.
cgag 12y ago
I don't know about nausea but if that doesn't cause some kind of anger or disgust you've got problems.
- benihana 12y ago
  "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
  - wtetzner 12y ago
    I don't mind people going faster or slower than me as long as they're in the right lane.
- lectrick 12y ago
  I wouldn't say "problems"... just different motivations. We can start an entire conversation about how some people care more about their careers than their paychecks and about how some people don't, and about how still OTHER people can't even afford to care more about their careers than their paychecks. I don't judge. I just know how _I_ felt.
pjbrunet 12y ago
Work and life purpose, not far from marriage and family in the hierarchy of things, depending on your beliefs.
ergothus 12y ago
It doesn't seem too unbelievable. I often feel physical symptoms from emotions, and judging from idioms (butterflys in the stomach, etc) it's not unusual. That a business tactic based not on making a better product but instead hurting the market would shock someone unused to such matters seems perfectly reasonable. To feel you were supporting that would just make it worse.
lectrick 12y ago
I was going to revisit use of that word but going back... yeah, it was seriously at least a little like that. I started to dread going into work. I perhaps wasn't full-on going to retch, but it was definitely inducing. It was also my first job out of college and I was wet behind the ears and perhaps not aware that the real world can be a cold and harsh place.
ufo 12y ago
While the parent post was probably referring to this figuratively, when we think of something repulsive we actually activate the same part of the limbic system in brain that we use to feel repulsed when we smell something rotten. In a way, our frontal cortex is hijacking the legacy "run away from smelly stuff" system instead of recreating it from scratch. This also extends to other systems as well: when someone is "hungry for success" they are using the same part of the brain that makes you hungry for food.
nocman 12y ago
If only there was someone to restore balance to the universe ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jh4Mpgbi4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jh4Mpgbi4A :-D