4 ms·
Where are you getting "half-asleep" from? From gillianseed's translation of the actual case file "They went to sleep and she awoke with the sensation of him ent
by rbobby 12y ago
Where are you getting "half-asleep" from? From gillianseed's translation of the actual case file "They went to sleep and she awoke with the sensation of him entering her." (see his comment in reply to yours).
In many jurisdiction initiating sex with an unconscious person is consider the same as non-consensual sex (one can't consent if one is unconscious). Some jurisdictions, like England and Wales, explicitly include sleep in the legislation around consent (i.e. a sleeping person cannot consent to sex, a reasonable person could not believe sex was consensual when the other party is asleep).
This is much more serious than "half-asleep" makes it appear.
- belorn 12y agoThere are many sources, especially in swedish, but I will just refer to this guardian article (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-...). The confusion seems to stem from a text message she wrote afterward, in which she called it half-asleep. The police document however wrote that she was asleep. Which should be seen as more accurate depend I guess.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- rbobby 12y agoNote that this is a claim put forward by Assange's defense team. For what that's worth.
- foobarqux 12y agoNo, I believe you can find the statement saying she was half-asleep or half-awake in the police transcripts.
- rbobby 12y agoNo it's not. Gillianseed provided a direct quote from the police interview. Did you just guess at this? Or do you have something to contradict the police interview (http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf, top of page 6)?
- foobarqux 12y agohttps://image.slidesharecdn.com/110630skeletonargument-130125193654-phpapp01/95/skeleton-argument-for-the-appellant-julian-assange-110630-29-638.jpg?cb=1359165049 https://image.slidesharecdn.com/110630skeletonargument-13012... Allegedly SW was re-interviewed and confirmed that she was half-asleep. Page 54 of the document you cite also says that she was "half-asleep".
- rbobby 12y agoI definitely missed the re-interview. However the full quote is: > Sofia also said that, when she was half asleep on her side, she had been aroused from slumber to feel that Assange was inside her. Which is quite different from a plain "half asleep", especially with the rest of the sentence: "aroused from slumber to feel that Assange was inside her". Even in its best light, assuming "half asleep", this begs the question of whether someone in that state can consent to sex (under the Swedish legislation), and/or whether a reasonable person could believe that there was consent. I'd say no... but I will grant that this sort of question is why judges and juries are necessary.
- belorn 12y agoIt indeed begs the question and the concept of "helpless state" in which the law talks about. I am not sure that there exist any precedence, as I think the law that this would normally trigger has so far only address situations when a person is in a helpless state because of drugs or mental status.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]