6 ms·

I'm not a ruby dev, so I guess maybe my perspective is not that great on this particular issue... but hats off to the dev with the fix, indeed this is how free

by bcg1 12y ago

I'm not a ruby dev, so I guess maybe my perspective is not that great on this particular issue... but hats off to the dev with the fix, indeed this is how free software collaboration is supposed to work in my opinion. Even the dev with the fix wasn't rude about the original problem, he seemed pretty humble about it actually. If you think the Ruby guys are such shitty programmers you should be able to dive into their codebases and find the plethora of problems to show them what's up... so either give them a pull request or STFU ;)

skj 12y ago
Clearly that would require becoming adept with Ruby, which would require actually looking at Ruby code. That's a bit of a show-stopper.
michaelfeathers 12y ago
> Even the dev with the fix wasn't rude about the original problem, he seemed pretty humble about it actually. The Ruby community is very good interpersonally from my experience. It's a culture that I think comes from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINASWAN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINASWAN
- nevinera 12y ago
  Unfortunately, the rails community are the visible minority, and they follow DHH's example more than Matz's.
  - thekaleb 12y ago
    David Heinemeier Hansson[1] for anybody else that was confused about what "DHH" referred to. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson
  - thinkbohemian 12y ago
    Tenderlove, the super nice guy who submitted that PR is on Rails core. Too bad to hear he's part of the evil visible minority that you just made up in your head.
    - nevinera 12y ago
      Right, because I claimed that there are no nice people working on rails at some point..? We were talking about the overall culture of the rails community. Nor did I intend to imply the DHH was evil, just abrasive. "nice" != "good"
EpicEng 12y ago
>so either give them a pull request or STFU Most people have neither the time nor inclination to fix problems with the language they use. If I buy a power saw and it turns out to be a POS, I just won't buy that brand again.
- wukerplank 12y ago
  You're talking about OSS - you didn't buy it. OSS does not entitle you to anything. Tenderlove and the Rubygems maintainers spend their time so you don't have to. If it doesn't fit your needs - okay. But don't act as if somebody owes you anything.
  - EpicEng 12y ago
    Once you have a product, free or not, which is used and relied upon by a large group of people, you do owe them something. if you don't want that responsibility then don't release your code or get out when things become serious. I get the OSS philosophy, and I like many things about it, but I also understand why some won't touch it with a ten foot pole. "Oh, I made a boneheaded error and now your code is 100x slower than it should be? Tough sh*t, fix it yourself. I owe you nothing!" That's not a reasonable mentality to have if you want adoption. Obviously the Ruby devs don't feel this way, but you seem to. That sort of attitude is nonsense and short sighted.
    - chowyuncat 12y ago
      Please describe why you believe the product owners owe the userbase something.
      - EpicEng 12y ago
        Because, for those projects who want a thriving userbase, the developers said "come, use our software to solve your problems." Once you do that you are making a promise to your users, whether explicit or implicit, that you'll be there when things go wrong. If you release some script or small program which was useful to you thinking that it may help someone else down the road, I agree, you don't owe your users anything. However, when you position your solution as something people should adopt (e.g. RoR, etc) then you do owe a level of quality and support to your users (not saying RoR doesn't, just a random example.) I love OSS, but every time it bites a user in the behind it loses mindshare.

by bcg1 12y ago

skj 12y ago

Clearly that would require becoming adept with Ruby, which would require actually looking at Ruby code. That's a bit of a show-stopper.

michaelfeathers 12y ago

> Even the dev with the fix wasn't rude about the original problem, he seemed pretty humble about it actually. The Ruby community is very good interpersonally from my experience. It's a culture that I think comes from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINASWAN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINASWAN

nevinera 12y ago
Unfortunately, the rails community are the visible minority, and they follow DHH's example more than Matz's.
- thekaleb 12y ago
  David Heinemeier Hansson[1] for anybody else that was confused about what "DHH" referred to. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson
- thinkbohemian 12y ago
  Tenderlove, the super nice guy who submitted that PR is on Rails core. Too bad to hear he's part of the evil visible minority that you just made up in your head.
  - nevinera 12y ago
    Right, because I claimed that there are no nice people working on rails at some point..? We were talking about the overall culture of the rails community. Nor did I intend to imply the DHH was evil, just abrasive. "nice" != "good"

EpicEng 12y ago

>so either give them a pull request or STFU Most people have neither the time nor inclination to fix problems with the language they use. If I buy a power saw and it turns out to be a POS, I just won't buy that brand again.

wukerplank 12y ago
You're talking about OSS - you didn't buy it. OSS does not entitle you to anything. Tenderlove and the Rubygems maintainers spend their time so you don't have to. If it doesn't fit your needs - okay. But don't act as if somebody owes you anything.
- EpicEng 12y ago
  Once you have a product, free or not, which is used and relied upon by a large group of people, you do owe them something. if you don't want that responsibility then don't release your code or get out when things become serious. I get the OSS philosophy, and I like many things about it, but I also understand why some won't touch it with a ten foot pole. "Oh, I made a boneheaded error and now your code is 100x slower than it should be? Tough sh*t, fix it yourself. I owe you nothing!" That's not a reasonable mentality to have if you want adoption. Obviously the Ruby devs don't feel this way, but you seem to. That sort of attitude is nonsense and short sighted.
  - chowyuncat 12y ago
    Please describe why you believe the product owners owe the userbase something.
    - EpicEng 12y ago
      Because, for those projects who want a thriving userbase, the developers said "come, use our software to solve your problems." Once you do that you are making a promise to your users, whether explicit or implicit, that you'll be there when things go wrong. If you release some script or small program which was useful to you thinking that it may help someone else down the road, I agree, you don't owe your users anything. However, when you position your solution as something people should adopt (e.g. RoR, etc) then you do owe a level of quality and support to your users (not saying RoR doesn't, just a random example.) I love OSS, but every time it bites a user in the behind it loses mindshare.