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Update: It looks like it is not just polls - there is also a debate tool (although does not look very sophisticated). Still the article talked mostly about poll

by zby 12y ago

Update: It looks like it is not just polls - there is also a debate tool (although does not look very sophisticated). Still the article talked mostly about polls. I don't know - maybe it is a step in the right direction - but I have the feeling that polls are not very good way to make decisions. There is a lot of thought put into stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making - and hey - there are even very pretty web apps that claim to be based on this: https://www.loomio.org/ https://www.loomio.org/ And by the way: http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2014/07/what-we-expected-all-along-nsa-hacked-online-polls-we-suspect-that-voting-machines-and-ballot-counting-scanners-are-also-hacked-and-rigged-2480144.html http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2014/0... - I don't know, maybe the current parliaments are not very good - but at least they are real - not armies of sock puppets.

makeitsuckless 12y ago
I used to feel that way, and was strongly against the argument of using tech for direct democracy. For years I worked on leveraging tech to improve the transparency of (local) government, and to close the gap between the voters and their representatives. I believed in the representative democracy (unlike many other techies), I just believed it needed to be improved. I unfortunately came to the conclusion that party politics have completely corrupted the current systems. Over generations the establishment has learned to game the system so perfectly that the elite will remain in charge no matter what happens. Even new "anti-establishment" parties are quickly absorbed or corrupted. I've come to believe that the essence of renewing democracy is change itself. Not because one system is fundamentally better than the other, but because it will break the stranglehold the current political elite has on the existing system. Change is the essential ingredient. Undermine the power of the establish parties by any means necessary, even if that means decision making will initially get "worse". At least it will be a return to actual democracy. That, and transparency. Pretty much any political system can benefit from much more transparency
- seandhi 12y ago
  I think I would be okay with a direct democracy as long as any legislation passed through direct means underwent a judicial review for constitutional issues before someone was directly harmed by said legislation. The current system of requiring locus standi before a law can be challenged is bad enough with representatives who are supposedly more educated on legal matters passing laws of questionable constitutional legality - I could only imagine how much worse it would be with a largely uneducated (on legal matters) population. What's that saying? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner or something?
  - warfangle 12y ago
    That's what Great Pyrenees are for ;)
- tedks 12y ago
  > Over generations the establishment has learned to game the system so perfectly that the elite will remain in charge no matter what happens. Even new "anti-establishment" parties are quickly absorbed or corrupted. Is this a bug or a feature? Consider who the user of this system is, in this instance.
- zby 12y ago
  I do believe that transparency is already changing politics. This is unstoppable - from the FOIA formal rights to lowering the barriers for mass distribution of information with internet to the the miniaturization of microphones and cameras (plus commercial drones). The rulers have never been so much under susveillance. But what the effects will be is not very clear - surely we'll see a lot of good stuff - but I am afraid that this can lead also to the a kind of 'small village mentality' - where everyone knows everything about everyone - and the social pressure for conformity is enormous.
rokhayakebe 12y ago
How about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_system
- santisiri 12y ago
  We are definitely exploring different voting systems. Thanks!
santisiri 12y ago
We are very concerned to make the app not just about polls. That's why we are developing support for the blockchain: every vote must be counted independently of the application. Accountability is a fundamental aspect of this technology. That's why its also free software.
zby 12y ago
And yet another problem with this is that on computer systems root is the god - it is very hard to prove honesty in the system. Maybe with crypto we'll have some methods here - I am all for experimenting with this - but it is important to remember that it is very different from physical systems and that many things that we take for granted will not work there.
- piamancini 12y ago
  You have a very valid point. We are looking for funding now to be able to provide blockchain support for voting in democracyOS

by zby 12y ago

makeitsuckless 12y ago

I used to feel that way, and was strongly against the argument of using tech for direct democracy. For years I worked on leveraging tech to improve the transparency of (local) government, and to close the gap between the voters and their representatives. I believed in the representative democracy (unlike many other techies), I just believed it needed to be improved. I unfortunately came to the conclusion that party politics have completely corrupted the current systems. Over generations the establishment has learned to game the system so perfectly that the elite will remain in charge no matter what happens. Even new "anti-establishment" parties are quickly absorbed or corrupted. I've come to believe that the essence of renewing democracy is change itself. Not because one system is fundamentally better than the other, but because it will break the stranglehold the current political elite has on the existing system. Change is the essential ingredient. Undermine the power of the establish parties by any means necessary, even if that means decision making will initially get "worse". At least it will be a return to actual democracy. That, and transparency. Pretty much any political system can benefit from much more transparency

seandhi 12y ago
I think I would be okay with a direct democracy as long as any legislation passed through direct means underwent a judicial review for constitutional issues before someone was directly harmed by said legislation. The current system of requiring locus standi before a law can be challenged is bad enough with representatives who are supposedly more educated on legal matters passing laws of questionable constitutional legality - I could only imagine how much worse it would be with a largely uneducated (on legal matters) population. What's that saying? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner or something?
- warfangle 12y ago
  That's what Great Pyrenees are for ;)
tedks 12y ago
> Over generations the establishment has learned to game the system so perfectly that the elite will remain in charge no matter what happens. Even new "anti-establishment" parties are quickly absorbed or corrupted. Is this a bug or a feature? Consider who the user of this system is, in this instance.
zby 12y ago
I do believe that transparency is already changing politics. This is unstoppable - from the FOIA formal rights to lowering the barriers for mass distribution of information with internet to the the miniaturization of microphones and cameras (plus commercial drones). The rulers have never been so much under susveillance. But what the effects will be is not very clear - surely we'll see a lot of good stuff - but I am afraid that this can lead also to the a kind of 'small village mentality' - where everyone knows everything about everyone - and the social pressure for conformity is enormous.

rokhayakebe 12y ago

How about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_system

santisiri 12y ago
We are definitely exploring different voting systems. Thanks!

santisiri 12y ago

We are very concerned to make the app not just about polls. That's why we are developing support for the blockchain: every vote must be counted independently of the application. Accountability is a fundamental aspect of this technology. That's why its also free software.

zby 12y ago

And yet another problem with this is that on computer systems root is the god - it is very hard to prove honesty in the system. Maybe with crypto we'll have some methods here - I am all for experimenting with this - but it is important to remember that it is very different from physical systems and that many things that we take for granted will not work there.

piamancini 12y ago
You have a very valid point. We are looking for funding now to be able to provide blockchain support for voting in democracyOS