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Exactly. Looking at the whole business from a Nordic perspective, the idea of this process being some kind of a plot to extradite Assange to be tortured by the

Exactly. Looking at the whole business from a Nordic perspective, the idea of this process being some kind of a plot to extradite Assange to be tortured by the Americans is just silly. Britain is the poodle in U.S.'s pocket, not Sweden. A more rational perspective to the situation can be seen from the point of view of rape statistics. They are an indication of how seriously countries take accusations of sexual molestation. The rate of police-recorded rape offenses is - US: 27.3 - UK: 28.8 - Sweden: 63.5 Are there really more than twice as many rapes per capita in Sweden than there are in UK or US? Of course not, if you use the same definition for rape. The issue is that Sweden records things differently. I'm quite convinced that if we're looking at what actually happens, Sweden has less rape then UK or US, but Sweden records them with a much lower threshold for what constitutes a "rape" so that the statistics looks different.

danabramov 12y ago
... or maybe it's under-reported in UK or US?
vidarh 12y ago
> Britain is the poodle in U.S.'s pocket, not Sweden. Sweden has a history of actively handing asylum seekers to the CIA for illegal rendition without even the knowledge of any courts. The UK doesn't to my knowledge have a history of handing over people without proper extradition proceedings, some that have dragged out in the court system for years.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  In this case the idea that this could happen without knowledge of any courts is rather absurd because the whole point was to bring Assange to a court.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    The point was that no extradition request was made, or reviewed by any court, and that the renditions were done in flagrant violation of international law, and directly led to the torture of at least two political asylum seekers. Not only that, but the rendition flights with complicity of Swedish staff continued for years after they were initially uncovered and condemned and the government promised they would end.
- jamespo 12y ago
  You'd have thought he considered that before raping someone there
  - lione 12y ago
    Allegedly
  - balabaster 12y ago
    Not that I'm condoning his behaviour, but unless I'm missing a piece of the puzzle that I'm not understanding: Last I checked, anywhere outside of Sweden, having sex with a partner who appeared to be willing (until after the fact) is not rape. If that's the case, how do people not get charged with rape all the time? Girl gets drunk, wakes up the morning after, looks over and would rather chew her own arm off than wake him up before escaping... This kind of scenario has played out in countless movies and every university dorm since the beginning of time. Usually it's the guy who gets drunk and tries to escape, but the plot is the same. So he woke her up with sex... something many millions of partners the world over have done countless times... and enjoyed. She appeared willing, consensual, into it - at least that's how it allegedly looked at the time, and then she cries foul after the fact... Sounds an awful lot like she had sex with this guy, then she was jealous about him having sex with another girl, they both found out he was double dipping (as it were), were pissed that they weren't the center of his attention and thus decided to have him slapped with a rape charge. Of course, that's just what one can glean from the various hyperbolic media reports. I'm quite sure it's more nuanced than that. But even with the hyperbole, that doesn't sound like rape, that sounds like a revenge tactic for jealousy. The fact that this could also play favour for a U.S. rendition really just compounds how suspicious this whole situation sounds. If you were in the shoes of Assange, with 2 girls throwing themselves at you for sex (which is how it comes across in the media) and then in the midst of you leaking the largest trove of politically embarrassing documents that have ever been leaked, having them come forward with allegations of rape, in a country that until you start digging you had no idea they have a history of conspiracy to perform illegal rendition to the U.S... It seems to me that the worst thing that happened here was poor judgment. If you have sex with two people at the same time and get busted, it's not unusual for them both to be pissed that they're not the only one... and I hate to say it, but people in that situation tend to do irrational things such as you might hear about in songs written by Carrie Underwood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8 or worse... abuse the legal system for revenge.
- xorcist 12y ago
  That's a simplification that's so far stretched it doesn't make sense. The UK has also extradited people under terrorist laws, just like the Swedish case you keep referring to. Sweden also has a history of protecting deserters from the US army, from the Vietnam era onwards. But neither of this matters, because the whole theory doesn't make sense. If Assange was sent to Sweden for questioning, the very same international agreements that got him sent there would only allow him to be sent back to the UK, nowhere else.
- rmc 12y ago
  The UK has a history of imprisoning people without trail, and suspending trail by jury within British courts in Northern Ireland. They don't need to hand them over to anywhere.
peterfirefly 12y ago
Given the population change going on in Sweden, that's actually quite likely. A factor of 2 might be too small.

danabramov 12y ago

... or maybe it's under-reported in UK or US?

vidarh 12y ago

> Britain is the poodle in U.S.'s pocket, not Sweden. Sweden has a history of actively handing asylum seekers to the CIA for illegal rendition without even the knowledge of any courts. The UK doesn't to my knowledge have a history of handing over people without proper extradition proceedings, some that have dragged out in the court system for years.

ptaipale 12y ago
In this case the idea that this could happen without knowledge of any courts is rather absurd because the whole point was to bring Assange to a court.
- vidarh 12y ago
  The point was that no extradition request was made, or reviewed by any court, and that the renditions were done in flagrant violation of international law, and directly led to the torture of at least two political asylum seekers. Not only that, but the rendition flights with complicity of Swedish staff continued for years after they were initially uncovered and condemned and the government promised they would end.
jamespo 12y ago
You'd have thought he considered that before raping someone there
- lione 12y ago
  Allegedly
- balabaster 12y ago
  Not that I'm condoning his behaviour, but unless I'm missing a piece of the puzzle that I'm not understanding: Last I checked, anywhere outside of Sweden, having sex with a partner who appeared to be willing (until after the fact) is not rape. If that's the case, how do people not get charged with rape all the time? Girl gets drunk, wakes up the morning after, looks over and would rather chew her own arm off than wake him up before escaping... This kind of scenario has played out in countless movies and every university dorm since the beginning of time. Usually it's the guy who gets drunk and tries to escape, but the plot is the same. So he woke her up with sex... something many millions of partners the world over have done countless times... and enjoyed. She appeared willing, consensual, into it - at least that's how it allegedly looked at the time, and then she cries foul after the fact... Sounds an awful lot like she had sex with this guy, then she was jealous about him having sex with another girl, they both found out he was double dipping (as it were), were pissed that they weren't the center of his attention and thus decided to have him slapped with a rape charge. Of course, that's just what one can glean from the various hyperbolic media reports. I'm quite sure it's more nuanced than that. But even with the hyperbole, that doesn't sound like rape, that sounds like a revenge tactic for jealousy. The fact that this could also play favour for a U.S. rendition really just compounds how suspicious this whole situation sounds. If you were in the shoes of Assange, with 2 girls throwing themselves at you for sex (which is how it comes across in the media) and then in the midst of you leaking the largest trove of politically embarrassing documents that have ever been leaked, having them come forward with allegations of rape, in a country that until you start digging you had no idea they have a history of conspiracy to perform illegal rendition to the U.S... It seems to me that the worst thing that happened here was poor judgment. If you have sex with two people at the same time and get busted, it's not unusual for them both to be pissed that they're not the only one... and I hate to say it, but people in that situation tend to do irrational things such as you might hear about in songs written by Carrie Underwood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8 or worse... abuse the legal system for revenge.
xorcist 12y ago
That's a simplification that's so far stretched it doesn't make sense. The UK has also extradited people under terrorist laws, just like the Swedish case you keep referring to. Sweden also has a history of protecting deserters from the US army, from the Vietnam era onwards. But neither of this matters, because the whole theory doesn't make sense. If Assange was sent to Sweden for questioning, the very same international agreements that got him sent there would only allow him to be sent back to the UK, nowhere else.
rmc 12y ago
The UK has a history of imprisoning people without trail, and suspending trail by jury within British courts in Northern Ireland. They don't need to hand them over to anywhere.

peterfirefly 12y ago

Given the population change going on in Sweden, that's actually quite likely. A factor of 2 might be too small.