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This whole thread is full of false equivalences. There's a difference between playing Russian Roulette with a 6 chambered gun, and one with 20,000 chambers. Ye

This whole thread is full of false equivalences. There's a difference between playing Russian Roulette with a 6 chambered gun, and one with 20,000 chambers. Yes, you can die falling out of bed. You can drown in a bucket. A meteor can hit your house. You can get into a car accident. None of these are comparable in risk to free soloing. Skydiving as a sport has 3 million jumps per year and ~21 deaths. It's extremely safe in comparison. (only about 1/5 of mountaineering injuries end in death) There are many ways to get extreme thrills in life or achieve a zen state and not all of them have comparable risks of dying. And many of them have a non-zero probability of injury instead of death due to safety factors from equipment. And then there are risks that bring societal benefit, for example, those who serve in dangerous places around the world bringing humanitarian assistance, or documenting human rights abuses. These are measured risks, and they are not solely selfish. Astronauts and explorers take risks on their missions, but they do so with the best equipment and preparation they can, and often for reasons that go beyond sport. Deliberating putting yourself into a situation by forging the usual safety equipment is being reckless. Often, the usual response to this kind of reasoning is that you could die at anytime so why not "live life to its fullest" but that's kind of a hedonistic copout. Subjectively you could define this to mean anything, like overdosing on heroin and dying in bliss. I think if you're going to be reasonable and empathic to your loved ones, your family, your community, you should have more concerns than just getting off on your own extreme hobbies while raising the cortisol levels of everyone who loves you. Taking the best available safety precautions is the responsible thing to do.

wldlyinaccurate 12y ago
I don't really understand what you're trying to convey. You cite many scenarios where you could die going about your everyday life, but then criticize free soloing as being significantly more risky and "reckless". The major difference between getting into a car accident and taking a fall while free soloing is that while free soloing, you are in control of nearly all of the risk factors. Free soloing routes that are beyond your capabilities, or climbing in bad weather -- that is reckless. Free soloing routes which you have practiced many times with protection -- to me, that's less reckless than cycling to work during rush hour.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- codeshaman 12y ago
  The only problem is that soloing inspires others to do the same thing and not all of them are going to be as good and some might die as a result. True soloing should be done without filming it, I guess.
  - CPLX 12y ago
    That makes no sense. I'm pretty sure that I would die during the first play from scrimmage if I suited up and tried to stand in for a middle linebacker in the NFL. The burden in this example, as in yours, is on the idiot who is so inspired, not the one with exceptional athletic skills.
  - konradb 12y ago
    I think that amazing activities should be freely filmed. The more inspiration in this world the better. If people less good at climbing than this guy are inspired but then bite off more than they can chew, we don't need to darken the light that inspired them. I think 'the problem' you've mentioned is too fundamental and general to guard against. Live and let live. People who do potentially lethal activities for which they are ill-equipped can be advised, but who knows where they get their inspiration from? If not a video of someone free-soloing maybe they'll be inspired by the latest film.
- brazzy 12y ago
  > while free soloing, you are in control of nearly all of the risk factors. That "nearly" is the kicker, though.
  - saiya-jin 12y ago
    while cycling (ie to work) on roads with cars, you are in full control of all dangerous elements... ooh wait
    - 12y ago
saiya-jin 12y ago
who are you to say for others what they should do or shouldn't with their life? here we are talking about elite athlete, olympic winner-level, with his greatest asset being total control of his mind (on a level that can be probably envied by quite a few gold-medal owners). On personal level, he is also super-cool guy, humble, a bit shy. I have the impression that most so-called haters didn't even try rock (or any other) climbing. The ways you need to overcome your own fear (and it's strongest of them all - fear of immediate death). I never did solo and I don't see a reason for me, but even with ropes, climbing is very special activity, beyond usual sports based solely on your strength & endurance levels. I would even say it makes me a slightly better person, more experienced with myself - how I react in panic mode, how to overcome my imminent fears and just push forward when needed. Isn't this enough at least respect other peoples activities? He doesn't want any money from you, or anything else. In fact, leave him be and he will be the happiest. Let us, sport & climbing fans pay indirectly him a bit so he can do what others can only dream of / admire from distance. Don't you see pure love in him for what he does? Something that I really don't see in hugely overpaid football/hockey/basketball/whatever mainstream sportsmen these days.
base698 12y ago
What if the person never had an outlet for self-esteem and found it skydiving? I know many people in that boat--myself included. You may think it's a hedonistic copout, but a bunch of people living in vans built a skydiving discipline that formed the basis of this business: https://www.iflyworld.com/ https://www.iflyworld.com/ which now allows millions of people to experience skydiving without the risk. Some people have different things that get them out of bed. I like hipster coffee shops, but that wasn't what motivated me to try to excel at my job.

wldlyinaccurate 12y ago

I don't really understand what you're trying to convey. You cite many scenarios where you could die going about your everyday life, but then criticize free soloing as being significantly more risky and "reckless". The major difference between getting into a car accident and taking a fall while free soloing is that while free soloing, you are in control of nearly all of the risk factors. Free soloing routes that are beyond your capabilities, or climbing in bad weather -- that is reckless. Free soloing routes which you have practiced many times with protection -- to me, that's less reckless than cycling to work during rush hour.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
codeshaman 12y ago
The only problem is that soloing inspires others to do the same thing and not all of them are going to be as good and some might die as a result. True soloing should be done without filming it, I guess.
- CPLX 12y ago
  That makes no sense. I'm pretty sure that I would die during the first play from scrimmage if I suited up and tried to stand in for a middle linebacker in the NFL. The burden in this example, as in yours, is on the idiot who is so inspired, not the one with exceptional athletic skills.
- konradb 12y ago
  I think that amazing activities should be freely filmed. The more inspiration in this world the better. If people less good at climbing than this guy are inspired but then bite off more than they can chew, we don't need to darken the light that inspired them. I think 'the problem' you've mentioned is too fundamental and general to guard against. Live and let live. People who do potentially lethal activities for which they are ill-equipped can be advised, but who knows where they get their inspiration from? If not a video of someone free-soloing maybe they'll be inspired by the latest film.
brazzy 12y ago
> while free soloing, you are in control of nearly all of the risk factors. That "nearly" is the kicker, though.
- saiya-jin 12y ago
  while cycling (ie to work) on roads with cars, you are in full control of all dangerous elements... ooh wait
  - 12y ago

saiya-jin 12y ago

who are you to say for others what they should do or shouldn't with their life? here we are talking about elite athlete, olympic winner-level, with his greatest asset being total control of his mind (on a level that can be probably envied by quite a few gold-medal owners). On personal level, he is also super-cool guy, humble, a bit shy. I have the impression that most so-called haters didn't even try rock (or any other) climbing. The ways you need to overcome your own fear (and it's strongest of them all - fear of immediate death). I never did solo and I don't see a reason for me, but even with ropes, climbing is very special activity, beyond usual sports based solely on your strength & endurance levels. I would even say it makes me a slightly better person, more experienced with myself - how I react in panic mode, how to overcome my imminent fears and just push forward when needed. Isn't this enough at least respect other peoples activities? He doesn't want any money from you, or anything else. In fact, leave him be and he will be the happiest. Let us, sport & climbing fans pay indirectly him a bit so he can do what others can only dream of / admire from distance. Don't you see pure love in him for what he does? Something that I really don't see in hugely overpaid football/hockey/basketball/whatever mainstream sportsmen these days.

base698 12y ago

What if the person never had an outlet for self-esteem and found it skydiving? I know many people in that boat--myself included. You may think it's a hedonistic copout, but a bunch of people living in vans built a skydiving discipline that formed the basis of this business: https://www.iflyworld.com/ https://www.iflyworld.com/ which now allows millions of people to experience skydiving without the risk. Some people have different things that get them out of bed. I like hipster coffee shops, but that wasn't what motivated me to try to excel at my job.