4 ms·

> What do you think caused the downfall of adventure games in the '90s? I think 90's era adventure games are looked at with rose colored glasses. A lot of the

by IvyMike 12y ago

> What do you think caused the downfall of adventure games in the '90s? I think 90's era adventure games are looked at with rose colored glasses. A lot of the time, these games were non-intuitive and won thru repetition ("try everything") rather than logic. Case in point: http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/79.html http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/79.html [this is the last page of a 3 page article, but you'll get the point]

minikomi 12y ago
I'm a huge fan of old Sierra games but I still have very sad memories of having saved space quest II quite near the end, after having being kissed by the alien - and thus being unable to make few final moves :( edit: oh, the painful memories.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SqKTBE0yC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SqKTBE0yC0
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  Very informative, thanks! I have never played those old games but I will look out to try from now on, very captivating.
- fixermark 12y ago
  Between my friends and I, we have a term-of-art for whether I will enjoy a puzzle adventure game: "Does the game let me eat the pie?" If it doesn't, I'll play it. I'm an adult now, and there are many more games on the market; I simply don't have time anymore for games that let me eat the pie. http://everything2.com/title/King%2527s+Quest+5+design+flaw http://everything2.com/title/King%2527s+Quest+5+design+flaw
  - serf 12y ago
    I love that kind of gameplay. That's what draws me to many J-RPGs. Didn't do X? Can't get Y, no matter how bad you want it. Most especially so when the game warns you in obscure ways. Plays which reward the player for being investigatory. Example : A placed readable book on the shelf warns player not to do X if they want Y far before the decision comes about. Or the player has a bad premonition or dream about it. Foreboding which has obvious intent once that player has passed the threshold of no return. It was stated earlier in the thread, but I think there is real value to setting an atmosphere in a game which rewards the player for being cautious, but curious. For example, the pie you're talking about had no real obvious use until the mob which requires it, right? Unless inventory space becomes an issue, a cautious player would likely hold on to that pie until faced with a challenge where they've tried other avenues. The type of player which tries every item in their inventory to succeed definitely isn't the target for this mechanics. Reminds me of the colored potion system in nethack.
    - fixermark 12y ago
      When well-crafted, it's a great thing to have such irreversible decision points. The fundamental flaw with the pie is it wasn't well-crafted (both in-game and in the larger ecosystem of adventure games at the time; players were encouraged to try everything when stuck, so they might eat the pie even if it wasn't an obvious solution to the current problem. "Can't climb this cliff. Maybe eating the pie will give me wings? That magic stick gives you wings in that other game...").
  - tmc2 12y ago
    That's fascinating. I grew up on Sierra logic, and (so?) I take it for granted. Of course I shouldn't eat the pie; I might need it later. The real world follows this rule, too. Economists call it "time preference." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
lelandbatey 12y ago
I think this is completely true. The Internet personality Day9 started a show over the past year called "Mostly Walking" specifically to play point and click Adventure games, and even though they're playing the best of the genre, they are rough. Backwards puzzle logic, bizarre references, and always the fall back to brute force puzzle solving. It's actually a series I'd recommend, as long as you have the time.

by IvyMike 12y ago

minikomi 12y ago

I'm a huge fan of old Sierra games but I still have very sad memories of having saved space quest II quite near the end, after having being kissed by the alien - and thus being unable to make few final moves :( edit: oh, the painful memories.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SqKTBE0yC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SqKTBE0yC0

72deluxe 12y ago
Very informative, thanks! I have never played those old games but I will look out to try from now on, very captivating.
fixermark 12y ago
Between my friends and I, we have a term-of-art for whether I will enjoy a puzzle adventure game: "Does the game let me eat the pie?" If it doesn't, I'll play it. I'm an adult now, and there are many more games on the market; I simply don't have time anymore for games that let me eat the pie. http://everything2.com/title/King%2527s+Quest+5+design+flaw http://everything2.com/title/King%2527s+Quest+5+design+flaw
- serf 12y ago
  I love that kind of gameplay. That's what draws me to many J-RPGs. Didn't do X? Can't get Y, no matter how bad you want it. Most especially so when the game warns you in obscure ways. Plays which reward the player for being investigatory. Example : A placed readable book on the shelf warns player not to do X if they want Y far before the decision comes about. Or the player has a bad premonition or dream about it. Foreboding which has obvious intent once that player has passed the threshold of no return. It was stated earlier in the thread, but I think there is real value to setting an atmosphere in a game which rewards the player for being cautious, but curious. For example, the pie you're talking about had no real obvious use until the mob which requires it, right? Unless inventory space becomes an issue, a cautious player would likely hold on to that pie until faced with a challenge where they've tried other avenues. The type of player which tries every item in their inventory to succeed definitely isn't the target for this mechanics. Reminds me of the colored potion system in nethack.
  - fixermark 12y ago
    When well-crafted, it's a great thing to have such irreversible decision points. The fundamental flaw with the pie is it wasn't well-crafted (both in-game and in the larger ecosystem of adventure games at the time; players were encouraged to try everything when stuck, so they might eat the pie even if it wasn't an obvious solution to the current problem. "Can't climb this cliff. Maybe eating the pie will give me wings? That magic stick gives you wings in that other game...").
- tmc2 12y ago
  That's fascinating. I grew up on Sierra logic, and (so?) I take it for granted. Of course I shouldn't eat the pie; I might need it later. The real world follows this rule, too. Economists call it "time preference." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

lelandbatey 12y ago

I think this is completely true. The Internet personality Day9 started a show over the past year called "Mostly Walking" specifically to play point and click Adventure games, and even though they're playing the best of the genre, they are rough. Backwards puzzle logic, bizarre references, and always the fall back to brute force puzzle solving. It's actually a series I'd recommend, as long as you have the time.