6 ms·

Lyft

144 points by nikunjk 12y ago

khamoud 12y ago
What's with the aggressive attitude? The writer admits that he doesn't fully understand the psyche of a "millennial" and then tries to be subtle and smear Uber. I'm a millennial and a software engineer so I make enough money to be able to purchase an eight passenger suburban and drive it around if I wanted to but I don't own a car so instead I choose to ride share. Is getting into an Uber more offensive than buying a suburban? This whole article felt like they were trying to prove why they are better than Uber by trying to make some fake sense of guilt for using Uber. I use Uber exclusively because my experiences with them have been so much better than the experiences I've had with lyft. Instead of focussing on why Uber is bad they should try to focus on helping make lyft suck less.
- pbreit 12y ago
  I think the audience is just bi-furcating. There are many Lyft riders who are horrified at the thought of sitting in the back solo of a non-professional's car. Likewise, there are many Uber riders who are insulted by the thought of chatting with their paid driver.
- ericd 12y ago
  Buying a Suburban and riding around in it alone could be considered offensive because it's somewhat selfish.
nostromo 12y ago
Anyone who thinks Airbnb is a "social experience" hasn't used and doesn't understand Airbnb. That's fine and all, rich dudes aren't their target market. But I cringe when I hear VCs talk about Airbnb, because it's nearly universally clueless. I think Airbnb is special in this way. It's a darling startup every VC loves and no VC ever uses.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  That's an interesting point. I've always assumed VCs were being disingenuous when they talked about the 'sharing economy', but it's possible they believe it's 'sharing' because they never actually use it.
  - nostromo 12y ago
    I'm sure the author is ingenuous, if that's a word. :) I think he simply does not understand the appeal of the product. I use both Lyft and Airbnb and I generally know more about my Lyft driver after a ride to the airport than I know about my Airbnb host.
    - wmeredith 12y ago
      "Genuine" is the word.
- pbreit 12y ago
  It's far more (potentially) social than, say, VRBO.
- defen 12y ago
  > Anyone who thinks Airbnb is a "social experience" hasn't used and doesn't understand Airbnb. Agreed. Maybe it was in its early days, but AirBnB today (In my experience using it ~10 times in the past 2 years, in major American cities. Could be different elsewhere) is that what you get is closer to a small boutique hotel service than a "social" experience, either with the hosts or other guests.
- measuredincm 12y ago
  This doesn't jive with my experience. Sure, some listings are just renting you a place and leaving you be. But I've booked non-private rooms in places and had very accommodating and social hosts.
- austenallred 12y ago
  I just got done with a week long airbnb stay in New York City, taking uber all the time. I talked to my airbnb host like twice - I would have loved a hotel but it was way cheaper. I hate talking to uber drivers. It's just a cheap convenient not terrible taxi. The reason VCs didn't get airbnb isn't because they aren't millennials. It's because they're not cheap enough. Relating to the problems of poor people is extremely difficult when you're rich.
jgrahamc 12y ago
the founders have held a hard-earned secret about all the subtle things necessary for people to come together in a car with strangers and enjoy it. For instance, John and Logan realized that women feel much more comfortable getting into a car if there’s a woman. That's a subtle insight?!? For my generation, it’s hard to fully understand the sea change of the millennial psyche. If you are calling people 'millenials' then you've failed from the get go.
- m52go 12y ago
  They treat "millennials" as if they're some sort of alien species. To them, I say: you were just as weird to the older generation when you were younger. So please, cut it out.
  - orcdork 12y ago
    The world you're looking for is "demographic". On a related sidenote, i use uber for the same anti-social reason i use airbnb. Uber to get a cab without having to talk to some random dude with a yorkshire accent on the phone for 15 minutes before i can manage getting a car to pick me up, and airbnb because i want a real apartment for myself, instead of hotel cucibles or a shared place. Couldn't care less about the made up social aspects of being stuck in traffic. Maybe I'm just not "millennial" enough.
    - pyrocat 12y ago
      have you used Lyft? You don't talk to anyone until your car picks you up, same as Uber. If you want you can sit in the back seat and not talk at all.
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    I'm almost certain that Scott would suggest his generation was weirder to the older one, than millennials are to theirs. What he's trying to capture here is that, on average the 20-40 demographic is engaging in an entirely different form of economic interaction than the 40-60, and 60-80 demographics. I don't know if that's the case - I'd be interested in hearing if there is any difference in how the various age groups do, or do not use airbnb, uber, lft, etc.... My guess is that use of these services is much more closely correlated with income, than it is age.
whichdan 12y ago
I live in Boston and hugely supported Lyft (using it exclusively over Uber), but as soon as the weather started getting bad (late December), it seemed as if all of the Lyft drivers vanished. I'm back to using Uber exclusively and not even checking Lyft, since I most likely won't be able to get a cab during peak time. Sure, it'll probably pick back up now that the weather is improving, but how they handle bad situations is much more defining than how they handle good ones.
- gitah 12y ago
  One aspect I haven't seen anyone mentioned is that Uber does not prompt you for tips where as Lyft does. This is a pretty big deal and is why I always choose Uber over Lyft.
  - whichdan 12y ago
    I actually emailed Lyft for clarification on this! They said that tipping is considered optional, and more of a reward for good service than a supplement for low pricing. That said, for both Lyft and Uber, the drivers seem to be underpaid as a whole, and several have remarked to me that hitting $20/hr means they're doing well.
    - aianus 12y ago
      Netting or grossing $20/h?
      - whichdan 12y ago
        Not sure; I think they implied gross, but probably meant net.
        aianus 12y ago
        I would say someone netting $20/h driving a car around part-time is well-compensated. Pretty much anyone in the US can drive a car and it's neither dangerous nor particularly uncomfortable.
nakedrobot2 12y ago
Let me decipher this cotton candy advertising-speak. "We have to bulk up to fight Uber. Lyft seem nicer at least, since Uber keeps getting caught doing sleazy things. Choose us, before we're completely commoditized."
- pbreit 12y ago
  Except that there's a good chance you are wrong. It's conventional wisdom that Uber should easily steamroll Lyft but it's just not happening and this post articulates some of the reason. Some/many people actually do appreciate a human(e) experience.
  - ojbyrne 12y ago
    Also some people think that Uber is basically run by world-class douchebags and welcome the opportunity to use a similar service and vote with their dollars at the same time.
  - jknightco 12y ago
    The only reason Uber hasn't steamrolled Lyft is because Lyft has been injected with over $850M in venture funding.
    - vivekpreddy 12y ago
      That's a curious statement. I could easily say the only reason Uber had a chance to steamroll anyone was because they've been injected with billions in venture funding...
  - ph0rque 12y ago
    My friend is an Uber driver. I asked him why he chose Uber over Lyft, and he says he actually contracts for both. All the other drivers he talks to also do the same thing.
- jusben1369 12y ago
  My read was "Uber nailed the black car/taxi experience. We'll concede that ground. But the fastest growing segment of Lyft (and Uber) is ride sharing and that's good because that's actually where Lyft started. So we're going to talk just about ride sharing as we go forward and try and redefine the landscape" I think the cherry on top was the subtle jab about a huge Suburban for one person which can happen with Uber.
mbesto 12y ago
> as we transform the $2.25 trillion U.S. personal transportation market Anyone know how this number is calculated? Tried the Google and couldn't find much.
- moe 12y ago
  Usually by the scientific method of summing up every remotely related figure that you can find on google, adding some markup for good measure, and then maintaining a straight face while dropping it on the audience that you wish to impress.
hodgesmr 12y ago
When I can't or don't want to drive, Lyft is definitely my go-to transportation option in my city (Cincinnati). The prices are lower. When it's "surge" time, Lyft's up-charges are less painful. The drivers are nicer. I only user Uber when I can't get a Lyft.
7Figures2Commas 12y ago
It's somewhat ironic that Lyft announced its largest funding round to date on the same day that a judge rejected the company's request to declare its drivers independent contractors. If a jury decides that drivers are employees, transforming the U.S. personal transportation market is going to become a much more expensive proposition for Lyft's investors. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Juries-to-decide-whether-Uber-Lyft-drivers-are-6128899.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Juries-to-decide-wheth...
kposehn 12y ago
> John and Logan realized that women feel much more comfortable getting into a car if there’s a woman. Today 30% of the Lyft drivers are women, which has also had the effect of attracting women passengers who now make up more than half of all riders. Makes me think that Lyft may be intentionally matching women drivers with women riders where possible. Smart move, if so.
habosa 12y ago
It's pretty scary that a representative of a company who just put half a billion dollars into Lyft seems to have no idea why Lyft is popular with "millennials". The only reason people of my generation don't go everywhere in a private black Suburban is because it's expensive. The only reason they use Lyft Line and not Lyft is because it's cheap. If you could get a private black car for $0.01 less than a Lyft Line you'd have the most popular app on the app store. It's the same with AirBnb. If you could stay at the downtown Mariott for $110 and an AirBnb was $120, AirBnb would be dead. It just happens that AirBnb offers lower prices than traditional hotels and much more capacity in certain locations. People don't say "I really want to go on vacation and share a home with a stranger, so I'll check out AirBnb". They say "oh shit the Westin is charging $300 a night because there is a conference in town, I'll stay in someone's guest bedroom for $100". Sure, the social thing is nice sometimes. Most Lyft drivers I get are more interesting than the taxi drivers I used to get (or at least more relatable to me). But all of the startups the "millenials" have fallen in love with either offer exceptional convenience (which is really about valuing your time), better pricing, or both. That's really all it's about. We're part of the free market like everyone else and we like to get things cheaply.
- wmeredith 12y ago
  I'm glad someone else said it. This author's understanding of millennials is cringe-worthy. I couldn't get past the first couple paragraphs.
  - pbreit 12y ago
    It's only 5 paragraphs total.
  - amagumori 12y ago
    as a millenial, i enjoy the word "millenial" because it's a great way to know when someone is about to start talking out of their ass.
- lobster_johnson 12y ago
  I like AirBnb because I don't like most hotels. They are like airports; ugly, generic, a place for just passing through whose pretensions of courtesy and happiness are a thin veneer over crass commercialism. If I can find an apartment that is nicer than a hotel (they are not all nicer, of course) then I will gladly pay a premium for my own entrance, my own kitchen, my own fridge, etc. Having spoken to my friends about this, I know I'm not the only one. I'm not a millennial, though, but then I doubt that millennials are the ones propping up AirBnb?
hndude 12y ago
"impact on world around us" should read "impact on the world around us"
somberi 12y ago
What the author forgets to mention, either intentionally or not, is that the drivers of Lyft are also millennials. Both drivers and passengers participate in a bottomed-out value chain, where the driver and the passenger cannot afford anything more expensive. Paupers driving Paupers, and Kings spinning this off as an "environmental cool meets individual liberty".

144 points by nikunjk 12y ago

What's with the aggressive attitude? The writer admits that he doesn't fully understand the psyche of a "millennial" and then tries to be subtle and smear Uber. I'm a millennial and a software engineer so I make enough money to be able to purchase an eight passenger suburban and drive it around if I wanted to but I don't own a car so instead I choose to ride share. Is getting into an Uber more offensive than buying a suburban? This whole article felt like they were trying to prove why they are better than Uber by trying to make some fake sense of guilt for using Uber. I use Uber exclusively because my experiences with them have been so much better than the experiences I've had with lyft. Instead of focussing on why Uber is bad they should try to focus on helping make lyft suck less.

pbreit 12y ago
I think the audience is just bi-furcating. There are many Lyft riders who are horrified at the thought of sitting in the back solo of a non-professional's car. Likewise, there are many Uber riders who are insulted by the thought of chatting with their paid driver.
ericd 12y ago
Buying a Suburban and riding around in it alone could be considered offensive because it's somewhat selfish.

nostromo 12y ago

Anyone who thinks Airbnb is a "social experience" hasn't used and doesn't understand Airbnb. That's fine and all, rich dudes aren't their target market. But I cringe when I hear VCs talk about Airbnb, because it's nearly universally clueless. I think Airbnb is special in this way. It's a darling startup every VC loves and no VC ever uses.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
That's an interesting point. I've always assumed VCs were being disingenuous when they talked about the 'sharing economy', but it's possible they believe it's 'sharing' because they never actually use it.
- nostromo 12y ago
  I'm sure the author is ingenuous, if that's a word. :) I think he simply does not understand the appeal of the product. I use both Lyft and Airbnb and I generally know more about my Lyft driver after a ride to the airport than I know about my Airbnb host.
  - wmeredith 12y ago
    "Genuine" is the word.
pbreit 12y ago
It's far more (potentially) social than, say, VRBO.
defen 12y ago
> Anyone who thinks Airbnb is a "social experience" hasn't used and doesn't understand Airbnb. Agreed. Maybe it was in its early days, but AirBnB today (In my experience using it ~10 times in the past 2 years, in major American cities. Could be different elsewhere) is that what you get is closer to a small boutique hotel service than a "social" experience, either with the hosts or other guests.
measuredincm 12y ago
This doesn't jive with my experience. Sure, some listings are just renting you a place and leaving you be. But I've booked non-private rooms in places and had very accommodating and social hosts.
austenallred 12y ago
I just got done with a week long airbnb stay in New York City, taking uber all the time. I talked to my airbnb host like twice - I would have loved a hotel but it was way cheaper. I hate talking to uber drivers. It's just a cheap convenient not terrible taxi. The reason VCs didn't get airbnb isn't because they aren't millennials. It's because they're not cheap enough. Relating to the problems of poor people is extremely difficult when you're rich.

jgrahamc 12y ago

the founders have held a hard-earned secret about all the subtle things necessary for people to come together in a car with strangers and enjoy it. For instance, John and Logan realized that women feel much more comfortable getting into a car if there’s a woman. That's a subtle insight?!? For my generation, it’s hard to fully understand the sea change of the millennial psyche. If you are calling people 'millenials' then you've failed from the get go.

m52go 12y ago
They treat "millennials" as if they're some sort of alien species. To them, I say: you were just as weird to the older generation when you were younger. So please, cut it out.
- orcdork 12y ago
  The world you're looking for is "demographic". On a related sidenote, i use uber for the same anti-social reason i use airbnb. Uber to get a cab without having to talk to some random dude with a yorkshire accent on the phone for 15 minutes before i can manage getting a car to pick me up, and airbnb because i want a real apartment for myself, instead of hotel cucibles or a shared place. Couldn't care less about the made up social aspects of being stuck in traffic. Maybe I'm just not "millennial" enough.
  - pyrocat 12y ago
    have you used Lyft? You don't talk to anyone until your car picks you up, same as Uber. If you want you can sit in the back seat and not talk at all.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  I'm almost certain that Scott would suggest his generation was weirder to the older one, than millennials are to theirs. What he's trying to capture here is that, on average the 20-40 demographic is engaging in an entirely different form of economic interaction than the 40-60, and 60-80 demographics. I don't know if that's the case - I'd be interested in hearing if there is any difference in how the various age groups do, or do not use airbnb, uber, lft, etc.... My guess is that use of these services is much more closely correlated with income, than it is age.

whichdan 12y ago

I live in Boston and hugely supported Lyft (using it exclusively over Uber), but as soon as the weather started getting bad (late December), it seemed as if all of the Lyft drivers vanished. I'm back to using Uber exclusively and not even checking Lyft, since I most likely won't be able to get a cab during peak time. Sure, it'll probably pick back up now that the weather is improving, but how they handle bad situations is much more defining than how they handle good ones.

gitah 12y ago
One aspect I haven't seen anyone mentioned is that Uber does not prompt you for tips where as Lyft does. This is a pretty big deal and is why I always choose Uber over Lyft.
- whichdan 12y ago
  I actually emailed Lyft for clarification on this! They said that tipping is considered optional, and more of a reward for good service than a supplement for low pricing. That said, for both Lyft and Uber, the drivers seem to be underpaid as a whole, and several have remarked to me that hitting $20/hr means they're doing well.
  - aianus 12y ago
    Netting or grossing $20/h?
    - whichdan 12y ago
      Not sure; I think they implied gross, but probably meant net.
      - aianus 12y ago
        I would say someone netting $20/h driving a car around part-time is well-compensated. Pretty much anyone in the US can drive a car and it's neither dangerous nor particularly uncomfortable.

nakedrobot2 12y ago

Let me decipher this cotton candy advertising-speak. "We have to bulk up to fight Uber. Lyft seem nicer at least, since Uber keeps getting caught doing sleazy things. Choose us, before we're completely commoditized."

pbreit 12y ago
Except that there's a good chance you are wrong. It's conventional wisdom that Uber should easily steamroll Lyft but it's just not happening and this post articulates some of the reason. Some/many people actually do appreciate a human(e) experience.
- ojbyrne 12y ago
  Also some people think that Uber is basically run by world-class douchebags and welcome the opportunity to use a similar service and vote with their dollars at the same time.
- jknightco 12y ago
  The only reason Uber hasn't steamrolled Lyft is because Lyft has been injected with over $850M in venture funding.
  - vivekpreddy 12y ago
    That's a curious statement. I could easily say the only reason Uber had a chance to steamroll anyone was because they've been injected with billions in venture funding...
- ph0rque 12y ago
  My friend is an Uber driver. I asked him why he chose Uber over Lyft, and he says he actually contracts for both. All the other drivers he talks to also do the same thing.
jusben1369 12y ago
My read was "Uber nailed the black car/taxi experience. We'll concede that ground. But the fastest growing segment of Lyft (and Uber) is ride sharing and that's good because that's actually where Lyft started. So we're going to talk just about ride sharing as we go forward and try and redefine the landscape" I think the cherry on top was the subtle jab about a huge Suburban for one person which can happen with Uber.

mbesto 12y ago

> as we transform the $2.25 trillion U.S. personal transportation market Anyone know how this number is calculated? Tried the Google and couldn't find much.

moe 12y ago
Usually by the scientific method of summing up every remotely related figure that you can find on google, adding some markup for good measure, and then maintaining a straight face while dropping it on the audience that you wish to impress.

hodgesmr 12y ago

When I can't or don't want to drive, Lyft is definitely my go-to transportation option in my city (Cincinnati). The prices are lower. When it's "surge" time, Lyft's up-charges are less painful. The drivers are nicer. I only user Uber when I can't get a Lyft.

7Figures2Commas 12y ago

It's somewhat ironic that Lyft announced its largest funding round to date on the same day that a judge rejected the company's request to declare its drivers independent contractors. If a jury decides that drivers are employees, transforming the U.S. personal transportation market is going to become a much more expensive proposition for Lyft's investors. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Juries-to-decide-whether-Uber-Lyft-drivers-are-6128899.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Juries-to-decide-wheth...

kposehn 12y ago

> John and Logan realized that women feel much more comfortable getting into a car if there’s a woman. Today 30% of the Lyft drivers are women, which has also had the effect of attracting women passengers who now make up more than half of all riders. Makes me think that Lyft may be intentionally matching women drivers with women riders where possible. Smart move, if so.

habosa 12y ago

It's pretty scary that a representative of a company who just put half a billion dollars into Lyft seems to have no idea why Lyft is popular with "millennials". The only reason people of my generation don't go everywhere in a private black Suburban is because it's expensive. The only reason they use Lyft Line and not Lyft is because it's cheap. If you could get a private black car for $0.01 less than a Lyft Line you'd have the most popular app on the app store. It's the same with AirBnb. If you could stay at the downtown Mariott for $110 and an AirBnb was $120, AirBnb would be dead. It just happens that AirBnb offers lower prices than traditional hotels and much more capacity in certain locations. People don't say "I really want to go on vacation and share a home with a stranger, so I'll check out AirBnb". They say "oh shit the Westin is charging $300 a night because there is a conference in town, I'll stay in someone's guest bedroom for $100". Sure, the social thing is nice sometimes. Most Lyft drivers I get are more interesting than the taxi drivers I used to get (or at least more relatable to me). But all of the startups the "millenials" have fallen in love with either offer exceptional convenience (which is really about valuing your time), better pricing, or both. That's really all it's about. We're part of the free market like everyone else and we like to get things cheaply.

wmeredith 12y ago
I'm glad someone else said it. This author's understanding of millennials is cringe-worthy. I couldn't get past the first couple paragraphs.
- pbreit 12y ago
  It's only 5 paragraphs total.
- amagumori 12y ago
  as a millenial, i enjoy the word "millenial" because it's a great way to know when someone is about to start talking out of their ass.
lobster_johnson 12y ago
I like AirBnb because I don't like most hotels. They are like airports; ugly, generic, a place for just passing through whose pretensions of courtesy and happiness are a thin veneer over crass commercialism. If I can find an apartment that is nicer than a hotel (they are not all nicer, of course) then I will gladly pay a premium for my own entrance, my own kitchen, my own fridge, etc. Having spoken to my friends about this, I know I'm not the only one. I'm not a millennial, though, but then I doubt that millennials are the ones propping up AirBnb?

hndude 12y ago

"impact on world around us" should read "impact on the world around us"

somberi 12y ago

What the author forgets to mention, either intentionally or not, is that the drivers of Lyft are also millennials. Both drivers and passengers participate in a bottomed-out value chain, where the driver and the passenger cannot afford anything more expensive. Paupers driving Paupers, and Kings spinning this off as an "environmental cool meets individual liberty".