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> The market handed them a monopoly Local governments handed them a monopoly. http://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-just-cable-companies-an

> The market handed them a monopoly Local governments handed them a monopoly. http://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-just-cable-companies-and-blame-local-government-for-dismal-broadband-competition/ http://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-jus... I disagree that ISPs are a natural monopoly. It's crazy to think that my house could choose between two competing road systems, but my house already has multiple wired communications networks. And if we all agree that ISP monopolies are real -- then we have a way of dealing with monopolies: break up the companies. It seems to me that this is the proper solution -- yet for some reason it's never discussed and instead we just keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

mfisher87 12y ago
It seems like the idea of going AT&T on modern corporations is completely off the table. Any time I bring this up, people look at me like I'm pro-tyranny. Break them up. They're holding our nation back and don't deserve to use us as a crutch.
- gojomo 12y ago
  Given that Google, Amazon, and Apple are all larger than Comcast in market-cap and most measures of market-share or customer count, will those three be broken up before Comcast, or after?
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    During.
  - ssmoot 12y ago
    They each have meaningful competition. I'm not sure what your definition of "monopoly" is if it includes companies like those.
    - gojomo 12y ago
      Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. Compared to Google or Apple, Comcast has a smaller market cap and smaller profit margins – and profit margins are a more reliable indicator of market power than eyeballing whether the competition looks "meaningful".
    - gojomo 12y ago
      Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. How is that a "monopoly"? Compared to Google or Apple, Comcast has a smaller market cap and smaller profit margins – and profit margins are a more reliable indicator of market power than eyeballing whether the competition looks "meaningful".
      - mfisher87 12y ago
        >Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. When you typed "ISP" is that supposed to mean "customer"? Citation? Against whom is Comcast competing? I know very few people who can choose even between Comcast & AT&T. It's widely known that Comcast colludes with other cable companies (Time Warner) to avoid competition. You're using a straw man argument. "Comcast is a monopoly." "Hey, look over there at something unrelated to your statement! Therefore, Comcast faces competition."
      - ssmoot 12y ago
        Citation? I had 1 choice in Dallas (TimeWarner). In McKinney (Dallas exurb with a population of 400K) I only had UVerse as a choice. The next best in those markets is ADSL. But that doesn't fit the bill if we're talking about broadband. So right now, myself and everyone I'm familiar with, face monopolies. And you're seriously trying to say Apple doesn't have competition? I have a hell of a lot more choice in what laptop I buy than what broadband provider I have for my home address (read: none). I decided a couple weeks ago to switch toe DuckDuckGo for search. I opened my Safari Preferences. Made the change. Done. This seems like an issue of basic reasoning skills.
- shit_parade 12y ago
  We live in a country where our public officials openly state that companies are "too big to jail", and they are unwilling to prosecute them for wrong doing because it could cause "systemic failure". http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/178_45/ag-holder-confirms-some-banks-too-big-to-jail-1057296-1.html http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/178_45/ag-holder-confir...
smutticus 12y ago
There are many different ways of dealing with monopolies. Sometimes breaking them up is not the best solution. Unbundling like we had with DSL, is another way to deal with telecom monopolies that doesn't result in breaking them up. Unfortunately ever since BrandX the FCC has fought against unbundling.
wtallis 12y ago
You've got multiple wired communications networks at home partly because that market is operating inefficiently, which is a thing that tends to happen in the real world.
comex 12y ago
We need to do both. Working to increase competition sounds like the most effective strategy in the long run, but that will be difficult and take a long time by Internet standards. Net neutrality will help curb abuse in the (relatively) short run.
warfangle 12y ago
I wonder what it would look like if the last mile were a) unbundled and b) operated as a co-operative.

mfisher87 12y ago

It seems like the idea of going AT&T on modern corporations is completely off the table. Any time I bring this up, people look at me like I'm pro-tyranny. Break them up. They're holding our nation back and don't deserve to use us as a crutch.

gojomo 12y ago
Given that Google, Amazon, and Apple are all larger than Comcast in market-cap and most measures of market-share or customer count, will those three be broken up before Comcast, or after?
- pessimizer 12y ago
  During.
- ssmoot 12y ago
  They each have meaningful competition. I'm not sure what your definition of "monopoly" is if it includes companies like those.
  - gojomo 12y ago
    Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. Compared to Google or Apple, Comcast has a smaller market cap and smaller profit margins – and profit margins are a more reliable indicator of market power than eyeballing whether the competition looks "meaningful".
  - gojomo 12y ago
    Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. How is that a "monopoly"? Compared to Google or Apple, Comcast has a smaller market cap and smaller profit margins – and profit margins are a more reliable indicator of market power than eyeballing whether the competition looks "meaningful".
    - mfisher87 12y ago
      >Almost everywhere in the US, almost every ISP faces at least 4 (and often more) alternative ways to get on the internet. When you typed "ISP" is that supposed to mean "customer"? Citation? Against whom is Comcast competing? I know very few people who can choose even between Comcast & AT&T. It's widely known that Comcast colludes with other cable companies (Time Warner) to avoid competition. You're using a straw man argument. "Comcast is a monopoly." "Hey, look over there at something unrelated to your statement! Therefore, Comcast faces competition."
    - ssmoot 12y ago
      Citation? I had 1 choice in Dallas (TimeWarner). In McKinney (Dallas exurb with a population of 400K) I only had UVerse as a choice. The next best in those markets is ADSL. But that doesn't fit the bill if we're talking about broadband. So right now, myself and everyone I'm familiar with, face monopolies. And you're seriously trying to say Apple doesn't have competition? I have a hell of a lot more choice in what laptop I buy than what broadband provider I have for my home address (read: none). I decided a couple weeks ago to switch toe DuckDuckGo for search. I opened my Safari Preferences. Made the change. Done. This seems like an issue of basic reasoning skills.
shit_parade 12y ago
We live in a country where our public officials openly state that companies are "too big to jail", and they are unwilling to prosecute them for wrong doing because it could cause "systemic failure". http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/178_45/ag-holder-confirms-some-banks-too-big-to-jail-1057296-1.html http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/178_45/ag-holder-confir...

smutticus 12y ago

There are many different ways of dealing with monopolies. Sometimes breaking them up is not the best solution. Unbundling like we had with DSL, is another way to deal with telecom monopolies that doesn't result in breaking them up. Unfortunately ever since BrandX the FCC has fought against unbundling.

wtallis 12y ago

You've got multiple wired communications networks at home partly because that market is operating inefficiently, which is a thing that tends to happen in the real world.

comex 12y ago

We need to do both. Working to increase competition sounds like the most effective strategy in the long run, but that will be difficult and take a long time by Internet standards. Net neutrality will help curb abuse in the (relatively) short run.

warfangle 12y ago

I wonder what it would look like if the last mile were a) unbundled and b) operated as a co-operative.