4 ms·

Is it really victimless? I'll admit that for something like pot, that is responsibly grown and used, there is no victims (well maybe with second hand smoke, bu

Is it really victimless? I'll admit that for something like pot, that is responsibly grown and used, there is no victims (well maybe with second hand smoke, but you get that just as much from cigarettes). But many drugs being sold do not come responsible producers. Instead, they come from groups that cause a lot of harm in order to acquire the money from selling those drugs. Yes, legalizing responsible production would largely fix this problem, but a current purchase still funds a horrible group. Even though the seller and buyer never hurt anyone themselves, they are directly funding those who do. Now, maybe he actually did more good than bad. Maybe for every sale funding a bad organization, he helped switch 10 from a bad organization to a responsible producer. And maybe that would still have been enough to get a jury to acquit him.

ocb 12y ago
I have no evidence for this, but I think that your chances of funding a violent group with your purchase would be significantly lower on a dark net market than if you made the purchase on the street.
- krapp 12y ago
  If darknets are profitable, what's to stop existing drug cartels from becoming involved with them?
  - aianus 12y ago
    Existing drug cartels have a great competitive advantage in violence, intimidation, and smuggling. None of those skills are particularly useful in competing with anonymous rivals on Silk Road.
    - krapp 12y ago
      There is still the violence involved in production and distribution, though.
      - aianus 12y ago
        For some drugs, sure. For the group of chemistry students cooking up a batch of MDMA or LSD inside the US and selling it directly to consumers through USPS, not so much.
- xorcist 12y ago
  Not likely. The prices on SR were higher than on the street because of more middlemen, not fewer. Whoever is selling to you on SR is buying from the street.
lectrick 12y ago
> Instead, they come from groups that cause a lot of harm in order to acquire the money from selling those drugs. Yes, legalizing responsible production would largely fix this problem, but a current purchase still funds a horrible group. So basically, to rephrase, the existence of the law is what makes the law necessary. It's almost tautological. IF it were treated as a public health problem (Portugal apparently did this with some success), Ross might have been hailed as a leader of a new economy and the IRS coffers might have been a bit heavier. Instead, the intelligent, optimistic, apparently caring mind who wrote this, is rotting in jail: http://rossman.deviantart.com/journal/something-new-249871164 http://rossman.deviantart.com/journal/something-new-24987116... How many of us would have at least considered hiring a hitman if someone threatened to make our black-market 100 million dollar empire go away and have us get sent to jail? More than would be comfortable admitting it, if they looked deep into their hearts, I'm guessing.
- Lawtonfogle 12y ago
  >So basically, to rephrase, the existence of the law is what makes the law necessary. It's almost tautological. Not quite. The law against production is what makes the law against buying and selling more relevant. What makes the law against production and sales relevant is different reasoning (I am neither defending nor attacking that reasoning as that would be a long discussion either way). I wouldn't consider it tautological nor circular reasoning, but it is stacked, and if you were to legalize production, that reason for the ban on selling and buying would no longer apply. The stacked reasons, now without their base, would no longer be supported. Are there other reasons, especially for certain drugs that are more dangerous? Maybe (once again, it would be a long discussion if they are justified or not).
- frozenport 12y ago
  >>IF it were treated as a public health problem Or if it were punished by death, like in Singapore.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- s73v3r 12y ago
spinlock 12y ago
Pot actually accounts for most of the income of Mexican drug cartels.
- Lawtonfogle 12y ago
  That is why I mentioned acquiring responsibly produced pot. The issue with buying it in an anonymous online black market is that it is really hard to verify who it is coming from.
  - spinlock 12y ago
    I feel like there's an analogy between medical states and first-world-problems here. I went to grad school in a red state and pot was really hard to find. I did have a guy who was great and always on the ball but you could tell his product wasn't locally sourced. I was always ambivalent about my purchases. On the one hand, I was supporting a small business owner who was fantastic. On the other hand, I was bankrolling bad people. At the end of the day I think our legal system makes a much bigger difference than I ever could.

ocb 12y ago

I have no evidence for this, but I think that your chances of funding a violent group with your purchase would be significantly lower on a dark net market than if you made the purchase on the street.

krapp 12y ago
If darknets are profitable, what's to stop existing drug cartels from becoming involved with them?
- aianus 12y ago
  Existing drug cartels have a great competitive advantage in violence, intimidation, and smuggling. None of those skills are particularly useful in competing with anonymous rivals on Silk Road.
  - krapp 12y ago
    There is still the violence involved in production and distribution, though.
    - aianus 12y ago
      For some drugs, sure. For the group of chemistry students cooking up a batch of MDMA or LSD inside the US and selling it directly to consumers through USPS, not so much.
xorcist 12y ago
Not likely. The prices on SR were higher than on the street because of more middlemen, not fewer. Whoever is selling to you on SR is buying from the street.

lectrick 12y ago

> Instead, they come from groups that cause a lot of harm in order to acquire the money from selling those drugs. Yes, legalizing responsible production would largely fix this problem, but a current purchase still funds a horrible group. So basically, to rephrase, the existence of the law is what makes the law necessary. It's almost tautological. IF it were treated as a public health problem (Portugal apparently did this with some success), Ross might have been hailed as a leader of a new economy and the IRS coffers might have been a bit heavier. Instead, the intelligent, optimistic, apparently caring mind who wrote this, is rotting in jail: http://rossman.deviantart.com/journal/something-new-249871164 http://rossman.deviantart.com/journal/something-new-24987116... How many of us would have at least considered hiring a hitman if someone threatened to make our black-market 100 million dollar empire go away and have us get sent to jail? More than would be comfortable admitting it, if they looked deep into their hearts, I'm guessing.

Lawtonfogle 12y ago
>So basically, to rephrase, the existence of the law is what makes the law necessary. It's almost tautological. Not quite. The law against production is what makes the law against buying and selling more relevant. What makes the law against production and sales relevant is different reasoning (I am neither defending nor attacking that reasoning as that would be a long discussion either way). I wouldn't consider it tautological nor circular reasoning, but it is stacked, and if you were to legalize production, that reason for the ban on selling and buying would no longer apply. The stacked reasons, now without their base, would no longer be supported. Are there other reasons, especially for certain drugs that are more dangerous? Maybe (once again, it would be a long discussion if they are justified or not).
frozenport 12y ago
>>IF it were treated as a public health problem Or if it were punished by death, like in Singapore.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
s73v3r 12y ago

spinlock 12y ago

Pot actually accounts for most of the income of Mexican drug cartels.

Lawtonfogle 12y ago
That is why I mentioned acquiring responsibly produced pot. The issue with buying it in an anonymous online black market is that it is really hard to verify who it is coming from.
- spinlock 12y ago
  I feel like there's an analogy between medical states and first-world-problems here. I went to grad school in a red state and pot was really hard to find. I did have a guy who was great and always on the ball but you could tell his product wasn't locally sourced. I was always ambivalent about my purchases. On the one hand, I was supporting a small business owner who was fantastic. On the other hand, I was bankrolling bad people. At the end of the day I think our legal system makes a much bigger difference than I ever could.