4 ms·

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Partly because we don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, as the US has brainwashed its citizens to do. Partly because of simple cultural differences: Norwegians like to bring their own lunch; Spaniards like to go to a neighbouring lunchroom. The relative cost of said lunchroom has nothing to do with it. Also nice to see this together with http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=918590 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=918590 . Anyone wonder why no European state has these kinds of problems?

coffeemug 17y ago
We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve. Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do lead a pretty good life and they're not crippled by debt or three backbreaking jobs. We love to play, and we work hard to do it. It's a different mindset - there is no reason to be insulting.
- masklinn 17y ago
  > This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines […] > > Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. See? That's how brainwashing works: you don't realize it. That's the point.
  - scotch_drinker 17y ago
    And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume. It's a highly condescending argument on several levels to make sweeping statements like that about people who have different motivations for doing what they do. We might as well all be brainwashed, there's no proving we're not if that's your argument. The original poster in this thread was being insulting and condescending. There's no other way to look at it, whether he meant to or not.
    - masklinn 17y ago
      > And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume. Absolutely, and it's probably just as true.
- yardie 17y ago
  You do realize the US has one of the highest debt to income ratios in the world. So while your friends aren't drowning in debt, the picture for the rest of the country doesn't look so rosey.
  - scotch_drinker 17y ago
    Got a link? It doesn't seem quite as clear cut as you paint it. http://www.creditloan.com/blog/americans-debt-to-income-ratio-as-compared-with-other-countries/ http://www.creditloan.com/blog/americans-debt-to-income-rati...
    - mpf62 17y ago
      The article you linked to does only look at static data. That’s to simplistic. What if you factor some dynamic data into that equation? For example Germany: this country exports about 20% more of value than it imports per year, while the US imports about 60% more of value than it exports. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... Doesn’t look so bad for Germany anymore if you consider there will be a tomorrow, does it? I know, this is a simplification to, but it’s up to you to investigate further using a little more trustworthy source than something like “Loans & Debt Consolidation - Get Cash NOW!”
- mpf62 17y ago
  How does buying stuff on credit increase your standard of living? At short notice, this may be the case, but this kind of behaviour is not sustainable. You know, there will be a day when the bills become due. What are you going to do then? Pass them on to your children? It is really weird that Americans feel “we’re rich, you’re not” because of all the things they “possess” (on credit). I wonder how many members of these armies of homeless that populate the US streets are where they are because they lived a live today they couldn’t even afford tommorrow.
ttjervaag 17y ago
In addition to the other superficial claims presented in the article and exposed here I'd like to point out that the average age of regular cars in Norway is now 10.3 years [1], compared to 9.4 years for the US [2]. Hardly worthy of the emotional statement "they drive around in wrecks". For bigger cars, SUVs or vans, the age difference is flipped, 6.9 years in Norway and 7.5 years in the US. There is enough difference in the car models between the two continents to explain staring googly-eyed at trucks when you get to the states, without resorting to emotionally inflated statistics. This article is pretty shallow in my eyes. It adds nothing to any debate (I'm not sure what debate it is supposed to add to) and is full of hyperbole and superficial conclusions based on one person's observations. [1] http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/12/20/bilreg_en/ http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/12/20/bilreg_en/ [2] http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/study-median-age-of-cars-in-u-s-increases-to-record-high/ http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/study-median-age-of-cars-...
- Tichy 17y ago
  Plus I suspect New York is not representative of the whole US, but I could be mistaken. I had the same "eyes falling out" effect in Germany when I visited Leipzig, a nice city in the former east German parts. It is supposed to be poor compared to Munich (where I used to live), yet all the houses looked so new and shiny. Reason: lots of money from the government for rebuilding (economic improvement plans), and also I think a famous house building scam that let to a huge influx of money into building houses. Not all the housing is put to good use now. Just to say that not all things are what they seem at face value.

coffeemug 17y ago

We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve. Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do lead a pretty good life and they're not crippled by debt or three backbreaking jobs. We love to play, and we work hard to do it. It's a different mindset - there is no reason to be insulting.

masklinn 17y ago
> This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines […] > > Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. See? That's how brainwashing works: you don't realize it. That's the point.
- scotch_drinker 17y ago
  And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume. It's a highly condescending argument on several levels to make sweeping statements like that about people who have different motivations for doing what they do. We might as well all be brainwashed, there's no proving we're not if that's your argument. The original poster in this thread was being insulting and condescending. There's no other way to look at it, whether he meant to or not.
  - masklinn 17y ago
    > And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume. Absolutely, and it's probably just as true.
yardie 17y ago
You do realize the US has one of the highest debt to income ratios in the world. So while your friends aren't drowning in debt, the picture for the rest of the country doesn't look so rosey.
- scotch_drinker 17y ago
  Got a link? It doesn't seem quite as clear cut as you paint it. http://www.creditloan.com/blog/americans-debt-to-income-ratio-as-compared-with-other-countries/ http://www.creditloan.com/blog/americans-debt-to-income-rati...
  - mpf62 17y ago
    The article you linked to does only look at static data. That’s to simplistic. What if you factor some dynamic data into that equation? For example Germany: this country exports about 20% more of value than it imports per year, while the US imports about 60% more of value than it exports. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... Doesn’t look so bad for Germany anymore if you consider there will be a tomorrow, does it? I know, this is a simplification to, but it’s up to you to investigate further using a little more trustworthy source than something like “Loans & Debt Consolidation - Get Cash NOW!”
mpf62 17y ago
How does buying stuff on credit increase your standard of living? At short notice, this may be the case, but this kind of behaviour is not sustainable. You know, there will be a day when the bills become due. What are you going to do then? Pass them on to your children? It is really weird that Americans feel “we’re rich, you’re not” because of all the things they “possess” (on credit). I wonder how many members of these armies of homeless that populate the US streets are where they are because they lived a live today they couldn’t even afford tommorrow.

ttjervaag 17y ago

In addition to the other superficial claims presented in the article and exposed here I'd like to point out that the average age of regular cars in Norway is now 10.3 years [1], compared to 9.4 years for the US [2]. Hardly worthy of the emotional statement "they drive around in wrecks". For bigger cars, SUVs or vans, the age difference is flipped, 6.9 years in Norway and 7.5 years in the US. There is enough difference in the car models between the two continents to explain staring googly-eyed at trucks when you get to the states, without resorting to emotionally inflated statistics. This article is pretty shallow in my eyes. It adds nothing to any debate (I'm not sure what debate it is supposed to add to) and is full of hyperbole and superficial conclusions based on one person's observations. [1] http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/12/20/bilreg_en/ http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/12/20/bilreg_en/ [2] http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/study-median-age-of-cars-in-u-s-increases-to-record-high/ http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/study-median-age-of-cars-...

Tichy 17y ago
Plus I suspect New York is not representative of the whole US, but I could be mistaken. I had the same "eyes falling out" effect in Germany when I visited Leipzig, a nice city in the former east German parts. It is supposed to be poor compared to Munich (where I used to live), yet all the houses looked so new and shiny. Reason: lots of money from the government for rebuilding (economic improvement plans), and also I think a famous house building scam that let to a huge influx of money into building houses. Not all the housing is put to good use now. Just to say that not all things are what they seem at face value.