4 ms·

First of all, averages aren't that significant. What are the numbers on the median? Furthermore, what about debt? How much credit card debt do Americans have

by fnid 17y ago

First of all, averages aren't that significant. What are the numbers on the median? Furthermore, what about debt? How much credit card debt do Americans have relative to Europeans? When I lived there, almost no one even had a credit card. They spent money they had. This is really a very bad picture of the situation. I spent a lot of time in a lot of places in Europe from Italy to the arctic circle and from spain to Poland and I found it to be a generally richer place over all. In fact, I was amazed at what I saw. I thought, "Wow, look at how amazing this place is. They have everything!" I find this article really hard to believe. Really, I couldn't care less about the numbers, I've been there and I've seen it and Europe is a richer place than America. It doesn't matter if we spend more on cars or not. They don't put value in those things like we do. Europe isn't about what you have or where you work, it's about who you are and enjoying life. I remember once asking someone in a group, "What do you do?" just curious. The response was, "You're so American." I didn't even realize how much status we put on people's jobs. It's how we define ourselves. What an eye opener.

wheels 17y ago
Actually it's not just that averages are bad indicators -- the examples that he chose are obviously hand picked to make his case -- which to a knowledgeable reader destroys the credibility of the article in which he does most likely have a valid point. For example he picks a mixed drink as a buying power indicator, but Norway has an off the charts "sin tax" on alcohol, which has little to do with the buying power for, say, a burger. Perceptions of quality of life are always skewed by the attitude of the perceiver: you being on vacation, or the author being sick of Norway, for example. I think the real thesis of the article is that there's a gap between Norway's perception of its own wealth and actual buying power, which really hit home for me when I interviewed for a job there (and ended up moving to Germany instead). The more deeper seated cultural values, notably between how the wealth of a society is measured, are naturally harder to measure analytically. My theory (having grown up in the US and spent most of my adult life in Europe) is that the US is a society that is more "hero" driven -- and people that "make it" are more rewarded across the spectrum, whereas Europe tends to focus on a well-functioning welfare state. As a result, the American version of poverty is rare in most western european countries, but society is also less structured for empowering individuals. Both have their up and downsides.

by fnid 17y ago

wheels 17y ago

Actually it's not just that averages are bad indicators -- the examples that he chose are obviously hand picked to make his case -- which to a knowledgeable reader destroys the credibility of the article in which he does most likely have a valid point. For example he picks a mixed drink as a buying power indicator, but Norway has an off the charts "sin tax" on alcohol, which has little to do with the buying power for, say, a burger. Perceptions of quality of life are always skewed by the attitude of the perceiver: you being on vacation, or the author being sick of Norway, for example. I think the real thesis of the article is that there's a gap between Norway's perception of its own wealth and actual buying power, which really hit home for me when I interviewed for a job there (and ended up moving to Germany instead). The more deeper seated cultural values, notably between how the wealth of a society is measured, are naturally harder to measure analytically. My theory (having grown up in the US and spent most of my adult life in Europe) is that the US is a society that is more "hero" driven -- and people that "make it" are more rewarded across the spectrum, whereas Europe tends to focus on a well-functioning welfare state. As a result, the American version of poverty is rare in most western european countries, but society is also less structured for empowering individuals. Both have their up and downsides.