3 ms·

> The biproduct of his quest to "defend the human and civil right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution" is that countries that

by jMyles 12y ago

> The biproduct of his quest to "defend the human and civil right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution" is that countries that aren't the USA all get to benefit from his wonderful innovations. Is it odd that I read this as unironic praise? Aren't there countries with oppressed minority groups that will benefit from being armed?

wongarsu 12y ago
The USA was founded on the principle that everybody should be armed to be able to defend against a corrupt state. Some other countries were founded on the principle that nobody should be armed (unless really nessesary) and that corrupt states should be dealt with in other ways. Both concepts are valid and have their unique drawbacks and advantages. The problem is that it's possible to derive a democratic society of that choice by making it even easier to circumvent gun control. Maybe somewhere in the world it will have positive effects if minorities are suddenly armed. In other places of the world police suddenly has to assume that everyone could carry a weapon, potentially leading to a lot of the problems the US has with their police. It's certainly not universally positive.
- jMyles 12y ago
  > leading to a lot of the problems the US has with their police I think it's a stretch to suggest that strong gun rights are what lead to police paranoia. Be reminded that many of the murders or other difficult-to-justify killings that have happened at the hands of police in the past decade have happened in cities where gun rights are essentially non-existent.
  - vectorjohn 12y ago
    That is the reddest herring. Any city in the US where gun rights are essentially non-existent is a few miles away from another city where they can get guns from, and nothing stops the guns from moving back in. When guns are illegal in the country it becomes a lot more like trying to smuggle drugs over borders. It still happens, but not so casually.
    - big_youth 12y ago
      >... it becomes a lot more like trying to smuggle drugs over borders. It still happens, but not so casually. I don't think the legality matters much. Drug prices have across the country have dropped significantly despite a ballooning war on drugs. A quick google search shows that cocaine has dropped 80% in price since the 80's. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/04/cheap_cocaine_why_are_coke_prices_going_down_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...

by jMyles 12y ago

wongarsu 12y ago

The USA was founded on the principle that everybody should be armed to be able to defend against a corrupt state. Some other countries were founded on the principle that nobody should be armed (unless really nessesary) and that corrupt states should be dealt with in other ways. Both concepts are valid and have their unique drawbacks and advantages. The problem is that it's possible to derive a democratic society of that choice by making it even easier to circumvent gun control. Maybe somewhere in the world it will have positive effects if minorities are suddenly armed. In other places of the world police suddenly has to assume that everyone could carry a weapon, potentially leading to a lot of the problems the US has with their police. It's certainly not universally positive.

jMyles 12y ago
> leading to a lot of the problems the US has with their police I think it's a stretch to suggest that strong gun rights are what lead to police paranoia. Be reminded that many of the murders or other difficult-to-justify killings that have happened at the hands of police in the past decade have happened in cities where gun rights are essentially non-existent.
- vectorjohn 12y ago
  That is the reddest herring. Any city in the US where gun rights are essentially non-existent is a few miles away from another city where they can get guns from, and nothing stops the guns from moving back in. When guns are illegal in the country it becomes a lot more like trying to smuggle drugs over borders. It still happens, but not so casually.
  - big_youth 12y ago
    >... it becomes a lot more like trying to smuggle drugs over borders. It still happens, but not so casually. I don't think the legality matters much. Drug prices have across the country have dropped significantly despite a ballooning war on drugs. A quick google search shows that cocaine has dropped 80% in price since the 80's. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/04/cheap_cocaine_why_are_coke_prices_going_down_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...