7 ms·

Author’s Note 119: Shameless Blegging

78 points by T-A 12y ago

davidrusu 12y ago
That wikipedia/peer-review replacement sounds fascinating, can't wait to see what he's come up with.
jeffreyrogers 12y ago
I enjoyed HPMOR (I read most of it a year or more ago, but haven't read the new stuff), but it seems Yudkowsky is spread a bit thin. The projects he's mentioned are all full time undertakings by someone qualified in their respective areas, so it seems excessive and naive to think they can all be addressed simultaneously by one person who's record of accomplishment to date is meager.
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  Elon Musk is also spread rather thin and seems to make things work somehow. Eliezer's accomplishments are not on the same level but the one he's been working on for more than ten years is rather more ambitious. Even just founding a non profit research institute is an awful lot more than most people ever do with their lives. And even if the chance of any of the things he mentions happening are very small any one of them would be awesome. Seriously, half of them could be the life's work of a very talented, intelligent person. If he gets more than one of the very ambitious ones up and running and then either does the Musk superhuman thing or hands it off to someone else I'll be very impressed.
- NickPollard 12y ago
  I think the point is that Eliezer's main strength - at least as I expect he would espouse himself - is his rationality or metacognition. This is what he would bring to those endeavours. In the same way that a clever computer science can be useful to many industries purely through the application of computing, he is hoping that his thought processes can be useful to many different industries, quite separate from actual in-depth knowledge of that particular industry. I don't think this is a far-fetched idea. Whether Eliezer is actually good enough to do it is another question, to which I don't know the answer.
kiba 12y ago
My prediction: HPMOR will not win a 2016 Hugos. Why? Some smarter folks I trust for their opinions believe otherwise. It's also because I haven't read the damn novel and they have, or so I assume.
kvee 12y ago
If you're new to HPMOR, don't read this. Instead, go to http://hpmor.com/chapter/1 http://hpmor.com/chapter/1 and scroll down to "Every inch of wall space is covered by a bookcase."
- wingerlang 12y ago
  I've always meant to read this one, although I usually don't even like the idea of fanfics. Reading just a bit, the constant "science!" is really off putting and I'm only half the chapter in. Just reading this [0] makes me want to close the tab. Is it this obvious and in the face throughout the whole 'book'? [0] > "Mum," Harry said. "If you want to win this argument with Dad, look in chapter two of the first book of the Feynman Lectures on Physics. There's a quote there about how philosophers say a great deal about what science absolutely requires, and it is all wrong, because the only rule in science is that the final arbiter is observation - that you just have to look at the world and report what you see. Um... off the top of my head I can't think of where to find something about how it's an ideal of science to settle things by experiment instead of arguments -"
  - pooriaazimi 12y ago
    No. The first few chapters might sound a bit off-putting (though, personally, I like it), but it gets much, much better after chapter 4 or 5. And after chapter 10, it is just a joy to read. If you're into audiobooks, don't miss the podcast: http://www.hpmorpodcast.com http://www.hpmorpodcast.com -- It is excellently read by multiple voices.
    - wingerlang 12y ago
      Okay, thanks. Then I'll keep reading.
  - wtallis 12y ago
    The tone changes greatly over the course of the story. The first several chapters are a lot more didactic and stilted before the humor gets going and the plot becomes gradually more character-driven and the story gets caught up in the actual events. The humor subsides further into the story as things get darker. The didactic bits don't go away entirely, but most of what remains of it through the second half of the story is inner monologue as part of the main character's problem solving process.
thaumasiotes 12y ago
> I must: Hold myself to a lower standard, somehow, even if many people are praising the work as Great Literature and my natural impulse is to try to live up to that. They'd fought in the forest, and he hadn't gotten a chance to say it. They'd fought in the corridors of Hogwarts, and he hadn't gotten a chance to say it. They'd fought in the air, broomsticks issued to every soldier, and it still hadn't made sense to say it. Harry had thought he wouldn't ever get to say those words, not while he was still young enough for them to be real... The Chaos Legionnaires were looking at Harry in puzzlement, as their general swam with his feet pointing up toward the distant light of the surface,and his head pointed down toward the murky depths. "Why are you upside down?", the young commander shouted at his army, and began to explain how to fight after you abandoned the privileged orientation of gravity. --------- That scene is enough, for me, for the book to be Great Literature. No need to overthink the term. I don't think the author could avoid having some people call his writing Great Literature if he tried.
- rspeer 12y ago
  I'm kind of confused about your point. I have enjoyed reading most of HPMOR, but I would have enjoyed it more if he had an editor. And I'm not sure why you chose to highlight this particular passage. A shout-out to Ender's Game makes it great literature?
  - lmm 12y ago
    Yeah. I find the jarring shout-outs the most annoying thing about HPMOR, and indeed about fanfiction in general.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - barry-cotter 12y ago
      From the Guardian's obituary for Terry Pratchett. >In a publishing world where popular success often equates to ill-written or hackneyed work, Pratchett’s novels, although in a racy, readable style, were constantly witty, with many cultural, vernacular and literary references. You never quite knew where the next association was coming from: you would find sideways references to HP Lovecraft, William Shakespeare, Beachcomber, Sellar and Yeatman, Thomas Hughes, Peter Shaffer (a good joke about Salieri), JRR Tolkien, Egyptology, vampirism, dragons.
peteretep 12y ago
I greatly enjoyed reading it, but am very excited by what a good editor who understood pacing and a consistent voice could do with it; let's see if he can get JKR's interest, and maybe then some commercial editing love.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  He needs her permission more than her interest. I have no doubt that he would also rather invest his advanced literary skills in new fiction more than spend time with an editor on something that has already went splat. Think safe thoughts!
comex 12y ago
Wow. I know almost nothing about the author or what he's accomplished (other than a skim of his Wikipedia page), but nevertheless, to summarize ungenerously a bit... - 'My publicly writing is a problem because "seething pools of corruption" in journalism will sneer at me.' - 'To continue writing, I need to improve the global social condition.' - 'I've designed and had someone program a Wikipedia replacement which has a one third probability of succeeding.' - 'I think I can predict startup success in a way almost nobody else can.' - 'Please involve me in <large list of futuristic projects>'. That's... a bit amazing as a coda to a piece of fanfiction. Yes, I know HPMOR is not your average fanfic (I've read at least two thirds of it), but just... take a moment to step back and admire the post, and the level of self-confidence required to write it. All I can say.
- dlss 12y ago
  Don't forget 'I hope to personally save the planet by solving the value alignment problem in artificial intelligence', which is where he's spending most of his time. Those are side projects he wants to do with the help of (I'm assuming) the other rationalists in Berkeley. FWIW I'm super excited about EY doing angel investing, I'd view an investment from him as more signal baring (and more of a trophy) than a YC investment... though I'm not sure how common a feeling this is. It's unfortunate that his tone / style of writing generally annoys exceptionally smart people. It took me several years to get over it personally.
- Amezarak 12y ago
  > Yes, I know HPMOR is not your average fanfic (I've read at least two thirds of it), but just... take a moment to step back and admire the post, and the level of self-confidence required to write it. All I can say. Consider that Harry in HPMOR is essentially a stand-in for a younger version of the author, and it becomes less surprising. He literally believes that he is an exceptional genius and that he is one of the only rational people in the world. You can read his "autobiography" here: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Yudkowsky%27s_coming_of_age http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Yudkowsky%27s_coming_of_age Additionally, he regards his work on AI as literally the most important thing in the world because he sincerely believes that it is the only possible way to save mankind. I have some measure of respect for EY and he clearly is very intelligent but I think most people outside of his community would regard him as having a somewhat inflated ego.
deleted 12y ago
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78 points by T-A 12y ago

That wikipedia/peer-review replacement sounds fascinating, can't wait to see what he's come up with.

I enjoyed HPMOR (I read most of it a year or more ago, but haven't read the new stuff), but it seems Yudkowsky is spread a bit thin. The projects he's mentioned are all full time undertakings by someone qualified in their respective areas, so it seems excessive and naive to think they can all be addressed simultaneously by one person who's record of accomplishment to date is meager.

barry-cotter 12y ago
Elon Musk is also spread rather thin and seems to make things work somehow. Eliezer's accomplishments are not on the same level but the one he's been working on for more than ten years is rather more ambitious. Even just founding a non profit research institute is an awful lot more than most people ever do with their lives. And even if the chance of any of the things he mentions happening are very small any one of them would be awesome. Seriously, half of them could be the life's work of a very talented, intelligent person. If he gets more than one of the very ambitious ones up and running and then either does the Musk superhuman thing or hands it off to someone else I'll be very impressed.
NickPollard 12y ago
I think the point is that Eliezer's main strength - at least as I expect he would espouse himself - is his rationality or metacognition. This is what he would bring to those endeavours. In the same way that a clever computer science can be useful to many industries purely through the application of computing, he is hoping that his thought processes can be useful to many different industries, quite separate from actual in-depth knowledge of that particular industry. I don't think this is a far-fetched idea. Whether Eliezer is actually good enough to do it is another question, to which I don't know the answer.

kiba 12y ago

My prediction: HPMOR will not win a 2016 Hugos. Why? Some smarter folks I trust for their opinions believe otherwise. It's also because I haven't read the damn novel and they have, or so I assume.

kvee 12y ago

If you're new to HPMOR, don't read this. Instead, go to http://hpmor.com/chapter/1 http://hpmor.com/chapter/1 and scroll down to "Every inch of wall space is covered by a bookcase."

wingerlang 12y ago
I've always meant to read this one, although I usually don't even like the idea of fanfics. Reading just a bit, the constant "science!" is really off putting and I'm only half the chapter in. Just reading this [0] makes me want to close the tab. Is it this obvious and in the face throughout the whole 'book'? [0] > "Mum," Harry said. "If you want to win this argument with Dad, look in chapter two of the first book of the Feynman Lectures on Physics. There's a quote there about how philosophers say a great deal about what science absolutely requires, and it is all wrong, because the only rule in science is that the final arbiter is observation - that you just have to look at the world and report what you see. Um... off the top of my head I can't think of where to find something about how it's an ideal of science to settle things by experiment instead of arguments -"
- pooriaazimi 12y ago
  No. The first few chapters might sound a bit off-putting (though, personally, I like it), but it gets much, much better after chapter 4 or 5. And after chapter 10, it is just a joy to read. If you're into audiobooks, don't miss the podcast: http://www.hpmorpodcast.com http://www.hpmorpodcast.com -- It is excellently read by multiple voices.
  - wingerlang 12y ago
    Okay, thanks. Then I'll keep reading.
- wtallis 12y ago
  The tone changes greatly over the course of the story. The first several chapters are a lot more didactic and stilted before the humor gets going and the plot becomes gradually more character-driven and the story gets caught up in the actual events. The humor subsides further into the story as things get darker. The didactic bits don't go away entirely, but most of what remains of it through the second half of the story is inner monologue as part of the main character's problem solving process.

thaumasiotes 12y ago

> I must: Hold myself to a lower standard, somehow, even if many people are praising the work as Great Literature and my natural impulse is to try to live up to that. They'd fought in the forest, and he hadn't gotten a chance to say it. They'd fought in the corridors of Hogwarts, and he hadn't gotten a chance to say it. They'd fought in the air, broomsticks issued to every soldier, and it still hadn't made sense to say it. Harry had thought he wouldn't ever get to say those words, not while he was still young enough for them to be real... The Chaos Legionnaires were looking at Harry in puzzlement, as their general swam with his feet pointing up toward the distant light of the surface,and his head pointed down toward the murky depths. "Why are you upside down?", the young commander shouted at his army, and began to explain how to fight after you abandoned the privileged orientation of gravity. --------- That scene is enough, for me, for the book to be Great Literature. No need to overthink the term. I don't think the author could avoid having some people call his writing Great Literature if he tried.

rspeer 12y ago
I'm kind of confused about your point. I have enjoyed reading most of HPMOR, but I would have enjoyed it more if he had an editor. And I'm not sure why you chose to highlight this particular passage. A shout-out to Ender's Game makes it great literature?
- lmm 12y ago
  Yeah. I find the jarring shout-outs the most annoying thing about HPMOR, and indeed about fanfiction in general.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - barry-cotter 12y ago
    From the Guardian's obituary for Terry Pratchett. >In a publishing world where popular success often equates to ill-written or hackneyed work, Pratchett’s novels, although in a racy, readable style, were constantly witty, with many cultural, vernacular and literary references. You never quite knew where the next association was coming from: you would find sideways references to HP Lovecraft, William Shakespeare, Beachcomber, Sellar and Yeatman, Thomas Hughes, Peter Shaffer (a good joke about Salieri), JRR Tolkien, Egyptology, vampirism, dragons.

peteretep 12y ago

I greatly enjoyed reading it, but am very excited by what a good editor who understood pacing and a consistent voice could do with it; let's see if he can get JKR's interest, and maybe then some commercial editing love.

maxerickson 12y ago
He needs her permission more than her interest. I have no doubt that he would also rather invest his advanced literary skills in new fiction more than spend time with an editor on something that has already went splat. Think safe thoughts!

comex 12y ago

Wow. I know almost nothing about the author or what he's accomplished (other than a skim of his Wikipedia page), but nevertheless, to summarize ungenerously a bit... - 'My publicly writing is a problem because "seething pools of corruption" in journalism will sneer at me.' - 'To continue writing, I need to improve the global social condition.' - 'I've designed and had someone program a Wikipedia replacement which has a one third probability of succeeding.' - 'I think I can predict startup success in a way almost nobody else can.' - 'Please involve me in <large list of futuristic projects>'. That's... a bit amazing as a coda to a piece of fanfiction. Yes, I know HPMOR is not your average fanfic (I've read at least two thirds of it), but just... take a moment to step back and admire the post, and the level of self-confidence required to write it. All I can say.

dlss 12y ago
Don't forget 'I hope to personally save the planet by solving the value alignment problem in artificial intelligence', which is where he's spending most of his time. Those are side projects he wants to do with the help of (I'm assuming) the other rationalists in Berkeley. FWIW I'm super excited about EY doing angel investing, I'd view an investment from him as more signal baring (and more of a trophy) than a YC investment... though I'm not sure how common a feeling this is. It's unfortunate that his tone / style of writing generally annoys exceptionally smart people. It took me several years to get over it personally.
Amezarak 12y ago
> Yes, I know HPMOR is not your average fanfic (I've read at least two thirds of it), but just... take a moment to step back and admire the post, and the level of self-confidence required to write it. All I can say. Consider that Harry in HPMOR is essentially a stand-in for a younger version of the author, and it becomes less surprising. He literally believes that he is an exceptional genius and that he is one of the only rational people in the world. You can read his "autobiography" here: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Yudkowsky%27s_coming_of_age http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Yudkowsky%27s_coming_of_age Additionally, he regards his work on AI as literally the most important thing in the world because he sincerely believes that it is the only possible way to save mankind. I have some measure of respect for EY and he clearly is very intelligent but I think most people outside of his community would regard him as having a somewhat inflated ego.

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