4 ms·

Future of the New York Times

36 points by tommycollison 12y ago

FordPrefectAO 12y ago
What is up with the scrolling on that site? It's jumps to hyperspeed about 1/2 way down the fold
- bonyt 12y ago
  It looks like they're using nicescroll[1] for "custom scrollbars". Not sure why they felt the need to re-implement scrolling on a mostly text website, but there it is. 1: http://areaaperta.com/nicescroll/ http://areaaperta.com/nicescroll/
- azimuth11 12y ago
  I was going to watch the video, but gave up. Not only the scrolling is bad, but the FPS too. Here is the free WordPress theme the site is based off for comparison: https://wordpress.org/themes/moesia/ https://wordpress.org/themes/moesia/
- dreamfactory2 12y ago
  also breaks swipe back
- morgante 12y ago
  Yup. Absolutely horrific. I'd hope that someone inspecting some of the digital missteps the NYT has made would at least get their website right...
pokoleo 12y ago
The javascript-run inertial scrolling is too distracting from the article for me to be able to read it. Looks like it's nicescroll[0], a jquery plugin (!!!). If you had a browser extension that allowed you to execute js on each page you visited, the plugin can be turned off if you define `$.niceScroll = true`. Maybe I should write that one day. [0] https://github.com/inuyaksa/jquery.nicescroll https://github.com/inuyaksa/jquery.nicescroll
- comex 12y ago
  Naturally, on OS X, where scroll events are already inertia-ed by the time they reach the browser, this makes scrolling way too fast. As a bonus, it breaks the two-finger back/forward gestures, as well as cmd-{up, down} to go to the top or bottom. How nice...
- desas 12y ago
  That browser extension already exists, see https://github.com/defunkt/dotjs https://github.com/defunkt/dotjs there are forks for other browsers and OS'
jay_kyburz 12y ago
Watching the video makes me think this is some kind of parody site. It starts out with some depressed looking worn out dude slouching in his chair mumbling incomprehensibly.
ricefield 12y ago
While I'm sure we're all frustrated with the scroll hacking, can we just not discuss that and instead focus on what an interesting and exciting project this is? I really wish I had a class half this interesting in undergrad.
- jessaustin 12y ago
  This should probably be a rule on HN: no complaining about scroll hacking. (Although, sure, let us stipulate that it is awful.) Some threads would be cut by half.
- nikanj 12y ago
  The technical staff making the page have a non-zero possibility of reading HN. They might eventually realize that people hate the scrolling experience, if every post mostly talks about the scrolling.
jonnathanson 12y ago
I applaud the NYT for opening itself up like this, and for giving these students a seriously cool project to work on. Who knows how many of their ideas will actually be practicable? But at least the NYT is expressing intellectual curiosity and submitting itself to examination. And it's willing to be examined by a segment (college students) that few other media organizations would take very seriously. Also, apropos of nothing, kudos to these kids for sneaking a Pied Piper logo into one of their pages. :)
vonnik 12y ago
The Future-Facing Products page is the most interesting. The bottom row of icons includes three non-advertising sources of revenue: merch, events and eduction. The merch is self-explanatory. It's what musicians rely on, too. The events parallel how tech blogs make their money. And the courses are an echo of how the Washington Post relied on Kaplan for its profit, until Bezos solved that problem. Like most things tied to the NYT, the self congratulatory tone often obstructs a clear view of reality. This sentence, for example, is laughable: "That same year, the Times launched its Chinese website, with staff based in China. Though later blocked by the Chinese government, it has been largely considered a success." Losing access to 99% of all Chinese-language readers is the opposite of success, and implies that the NYT deeply misread how little its coverage was aligned with the rules of Xi Jinping's regime. The man they wanted to lead the Beijing bureau ended up stuck in Hong Kong for lack of a visa, and is now the nominal head of the IHT newsroom there.
hackuser 12y ago
Resubmitting my critique of the Times from a month ago (I hope this isn't frowned upon at HN): -------- I read the NYT daily (via RSS feeds). It is an important institution for the U.S. and the world; the options are rapidly shrinking for high-quality journalism and so I worry about the Times' future. From my perspective the Times' content is invaluable, but in 2015 the Times is hurting itself because it still hasn't embraced the web. www.nytimes.com is still a newspaper's website, not a news website. When I'm looking for news in my browser, I don't care that you have a paper edition, I only care which website serves me best. -------- 1) Design: Look at the homepage. If someone was asked to design a new news (not a newspaper) website, who would design it like that? Rather than a news website it looks like a newspaper on the web, seemingly trying to mimic the layout of a newspaper's pages. (It's not just the Times -- often it's easy to identify news websites with a newspaper legacy.) From the perspective of people familiar with the Times on paper, it might seem familiar; but get outside that bubble and it's archaic and a bit bizarre.[1] Also, it hides so much content; why put all that talent and effort into work product that you show only to a few? My NYT RSS feeds look like a different, far richer publication than http://www.nytimes.com/ http://www.nytimes.com/. Again, it seems like attachment to the legacy newspaper design, where people can't easily pick up another publication and so will flip through Times' pages and sections looking for something interesting. The overall structure is a newspaper's sections forced into a website's medium. -------- 2) Multimedia is still secondary: Articles still are primarily text, but now more often with video and image bolted on almost as decoration, and not an integral part of the content, equal to the text. See today's article on Tomi Ungerer[2], chosen at random. This is about a visual artist, and it actually has several images within the text, rather than on top or in a pop-out, but the images are merely decorative. The author doesn't write, 'look at this drawing; see the use of color, the ironic shapes, etc.' and look at this detail <img: zoomed-in detail> where Mr. Ungerer uses X to do Y' It's almost as if the the author wrote the article and someone else picked some relevant decorations later. There's even a link in prime real estate, just beneath the banner, to "Video", as if I choose my news based on whether it's in text or video. As if you are saying, 'our actual news is below, and video is something we do over here'. I just want the news; I trust you to choose the best mix of mediums to communicate that particular story. The solution is well known: Most amateur bloggers are equally fluent in text and multimedia; rather than describing something they write 'look at this' or 'here's what happened' or 'here is the before and after' and, in the middle of their post place a video, image, or short loop as appropriate. Hundreds of millions of phone users fluently communicate with images and photos. But the talented, professional communicators at the Times stick primarily to text, I suppose because that's what they did on paper. I'm not looking for graphic excitement; they are just communication tools and sometimes multimedia is the right tool, sometimes text is; the Times seems to choose its tools based on paper's limitations (i.e., text is cheap, images expensive in both space and $, video impossible) and not what communicates best on the web (where all are cheap and space is unlimited). --------- 3) Updates and the news cycle: Two things I still see in the Times: A) 'Updated at 4:55pm'. If I read the article at 3:00pm, that isn't very helpful; should I re-read the entire thing and try to figure out what changed? Run a diff? Again, the solutions are well known and most bloggers handle this situation effectively; the Times still seems to be designing newspaper articles that will be published and read once. B) When you do have someone blogging a breaking news story, sometimes I'll see 'That's it for tonight, I'll be back at 8am tomorrow'. I don't have to explain the problems with that, though I'll add that the news and your readers are in time zones worldwide. --------- [1] This will be shocking to say but I'm trying to make a point about how far the Times is, conceptually, from the web medium: Consider the most recognized branding element, the detailed, archaic font used for "The New York Times", in the banner. In the days of newspapers, when readers could only type in Courier if at all, the font was special. It said, 'this was printed professionally, with skill and seriousness'. Now kids can print fonts like that on their school papers, anyone can do it on their WordPress blog, and when they do it's frowned upon. Now that element says, 'not a digital native, stuck in our glorious past'. Again, it's hard to imagine a newly created news website making that design decision. You may have a strong attachment to that design element, but billions of web users don't care. (I know branding is difficult to change; I expect the font will remain.) [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/arts/design/review-tomi-un.. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/arts/design/review-tomi-un....

36 points by tommycollison 12y ago

FordPrefectAO 12y ago

What is up with the scrolling on that site? It's jumps to hyperspeed about 1/2 way down the fold

bonyt 12y ago
It looks like they're using nicescroll[1] for "custom scrollbars". Not sure why they felt the need to re-implement scrolling on a mostly text website, but there it is. 1: http://areaaperta.com/nicescroll/ http://areaaperta.com/nicescroll/
azimuth11 12y ago
I was going to watch the video, but gave up. Not only the scrolling is bad, but the FPS too. Here is the free WordPress theme the site is based off for comparison: https://wordpress.org/themes/moesia/ https://wordpress.org/themes/moesia/
dreamfactory2 12y ago
also breaks swipe back
morgante 12y ago
Yup. Absolutely horrific. I'd hope that someone inspecting some of the digital missteps the NYT has made would at least get their website right...

pokoleo 12y ago

The javascript-run inertial scrolling is too distracting from the article for me to be able to read it. Looks like it's nicescroll[0], a jquery plugin (!!!). If you had a browser extension that allowed you to execute js on each page you visited, the plugin can be turned off if you define `$.niceScroll = true`. Maybe I should write that one day. [0] https://github.com/inuyaksa/jquery.nicescroll https://github.com/inuyaksa/jquery.nicescroll

comex 12y ago
Naturally, on OS X, where scroll events are already inertia-ed by the time they reach the browser, this makes scrolling way too fast. As a bonus, it breaks the two-finger back/forward gestures, as well as cmd-{up, down} to go to the top or bottom. How nice...
desas 12y ago
That browser extension already exists, see https://github.com/defunkt/dotjs https://github.com/defunkt/dotjs there are forks for other browsers and OS'

jay_kyburz 12y ago

Watching the video makes me think this is some kind of parody site. It starts out with some depressed looking worn out dude slouching in his chair mumbling incomprehensibly.

ricefield 12y ago

While I'm sure we're all frustrated with the scroll hacking, can we just not discuss that and instead focus on what an interesting and exciting project this is? I really wish I had a class half this interesting in undergrad.

jessaustin 12y ago
This should probably be a rule on HN: no complaining about scroll hacking. (Although, sure, let us stipulate that it is awful.) Some threads would be cut by half.
nikanj 12y ago
The technical staff making the page have a non-zero possibility of reading HN. They might eventually realize that people hate the scrolling experience, if every post mostly talks about the scrolling.

jonnathanson 12y ago

I applaud the NYT for opening itself up like this, and for giving these students a seriously cool project to work on. Who knows how many of their ideas will actually be practicable? But at least the NYT is expressing intellectual curiosity and submitting itself to examination. And it's willing to be examined by a segment (college students) that few other media organizations would take very seriously. Also, apropos of nothing, kudos to these kids for sneaking a Pied Piper logo into one of their pages. :)

vonnik 12y ago

The Future-Facing Products page is the most interesting. The bottom row of icons includes three non-advertising sources of revenue: merch, events and eduction. The merch is self-explanatory. It's what musicians rely on, too. The events parallel how tech blogs make their money. And the courses are an echo of how the Washington Post relied on Kaplan for its profit, until Bezos solved that problem. Like most things tied to the NYT, the self congratulatory tone often obstructs a clear view of reality. This sentence, for example, is laughable: "That same year, the Times launched its Chinese website, with staff based in China. Though later blocked by the Chinese government, it has been largely considered a success." Losing access to 99% of all Chinese-language readers is the opposite of success, and implies that the NYT deeply misread how little its coverage was aligned with the rules of Xi Jinping's regime. The man they wanted to lead the Beijing bureau ended up stuck in Hong Kong for lack of a visa, and is now the nominal head of the IHT newsroom there.

hackuser 12y ago

Resubmitting my critique of the Times from a month ago (I hope this isn't frowned upon at HN): -------- I read the NYT daily (via RSS feeds). It is an important institution for the U.S. and the world; the options are rapidly shrinking for high-quality journalism and so I worry about the Times' future. From my perspective the Times' content is invaluable, but in 2015 the Times is hurting itself because it still hasn't embraced the web. www.nytimes.com is still a newspaper's website, not a news website. When I'm looking for news in my browser, I don't care that you have a paper edition, I only care which website serves me best. -------- 1) Design: Look at the homepage. If someone was asked to design a new news (not a newspaper) website, who would design it like that? Rather than a news website it looks like a newspaper on the web, seemingly trying to mimic the layout of a newspaper's pages. (It's not just the Times -- often it's easy to identify news websites with a newspaper legacy.) From the perspective of people familiar with the Times on paper, it might seem familiar; but get outside that bubble and it's archaic and a bit bizarre.[1] Also, it hides so much content; why put all that talent and effort into work product that you show only to a few? My NYT RSS feeds look like a different, far richer publication than http://www.nytimes.com/ http://www.nytimes.com/. Again, it seems like attachment to the legacy newspaper design, where people can't easily pick up another publication and so will flip through Times' pages and sections looking for something interesting. The overall structure is a newspaper's sections forced into a website's medium. -------- 2) Multimedia is still secondary: Articles still are primarily text, but now more often with video and image bolted on almost as decoration, and not an integral part of the content, equal to the text. See today's article on Tomi Ungerer[2], chosen at random. This is about a visual artist, and it actually has several images within the text, rather than on top or in a pop-out, but the images are merely decorative. The author doesn't write, 'look at this drawing; see the use of color, the ironic shapes, etc.' and look at this detail <img: zoomed-in detail> where Mr. Ungerer uses X to do Y' It's almost as if the the author wrote the article and someone else picked some relevant decorations later. There's even a link in prime real estate, just beneath the banner, to "Video", as if I choose my news based on whether it's in text or video. As if you are saying, 'our actual news is below, and video is something we do over here'. I just want the news; I trust you to choose the best mix of mediums to communicate that particular story. The solution is well known: Most amateur bloggers are equally fluent in text and multimedia; rather than describing something they write 'look at this' or 'here's what happened' or 'here is the before and after' and, in the middle of their post place a video, image, or short loop as appropriate. Hundreds of millions of phone users fluently communicate with images and photos. But the talented, professional communicators at the Times stick primarily to text, I suppose because that's what they did on paper. I'm not looking for graphic excitement; they are just communication tools and sometimes multimedia is the right tool, sometimes text is; the Times seems to choose its tools based on paper's limitations (i.e., text is cheap, images expensive in both space and $, video impossible) and not what communicates best on the web (where all are cheap and space is unlimited). --------- 3) Updates and the news cycle: Two things I still see in the Times: A) 'Updated at 4:55pm'. If I read the article at 3:00pm, that isn't very helpful; should I re-read the entire thing and try to figure out what changed? Run a diff? Again, the solutions are well known and most bloggers handle this situation effectively; the Times still seems to be designing newspaper articles that will be published and read once. B) When you do have someone blogging a breaking news story, sometimes I'll see 'That's it for tonight, I'll be back at 8am tomorrow'. I don't have to explain the problems with that, though I'll add that the news and your readers are in time zones worldwide. --------- [1] This will be shocking to say but I'm trying to make a point about how far the Times is, conceptually, from the web medium: Consider the most recognized branding element, the detailed, archaic font used for "The New York Times", in the banner. In the days of newspapers, when readers could only type in Courier if at all, the font was special. It said, 'this was printed professionally, with skill and seriousness'. Now kids can print fonts like that on their school papers, anyone can do it on their WordPress blog, and when they do it's frowned upon. Now that element says, 'not a digital native, stuck in our glorious past'. Again, it's hard to imagine a newly created news website making that design decision. You may have a strong attachment to that design element, but billions of web users don't care. (I know branding is difficult to change; I expect the font will remain.) [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/arts/design/review-tomi-un.. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/arts/design/review-tomi-un....