7 ms·

At this point, I find this whole thing funny. Again. How many times has Apple done this in modern times? Remember the outrage when Apple removed floppy disk dr

At this point, I find this whole thing funny. Again. How many times has Apple done this in modern times? Remember the outrage when Apple removed floppy disk drives? Optical drives? Ethernet ports? Remember how mad everyone got when Apple replaced their old, thick connector on the iPhone 5? Nobody complains about how thin their phone is now that the old 30pin connector is no longer the limiting factor on size. Nobody is bemoaning the fact that they can't watch a DVD on their laptop - we've moved on from optical media. Nobody will even bother examining the bellyaching about this in a couple of years because we'll all be so happy with the obvious (in hindsight) decision to switch to USB-C.

bonaldi 12y ago
> Nobody complains about how thin their phone is now that the old 30pin connector is no longer the limiting factor on size Yeah, they do. Ask someone whose iPhone has just died (again) if they'd take it being a bit thicker with a bit more battery, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't make the trade. And I personally still miss living in a world where no matter where you went you were never more than 5 feet from a 30-pin cable.
- mwfunk 12y ago
  FWIW, my anecdotal experience is the exact opposite of your anecdotal experience, which I guess is the nature of such things.
  - bonaldi 12y ago
    Which part? Everyone you know prefers thinness over battery life? Or prefers having fewer compatible cables around?
jusben1369 12y ago
I understand your general point and think it holds true. However, I would say in my mind that the way Apple can decide to change their connector and suddenly make redundant a full range of downstream devices (house and car chargers, general chargers, audio equipment) is a real negative and one of the 3 or 4 things that keeps me from moving back over from Android.
- bduerst 12y ago
  3rd party market lock-in is one of the reasons I switched to Android too. I understand Apple is out to make money like everyone else, but skipping micro-usb is (from my perspective) not a product enhancement. Their delayed support on NFC arguably killed the user adoption for the tech as well, but i digress.
  - benaiah 12y ago
    Using open standards would be an Android plus for me too, if micro-usb didn't suck ass compared to Thunderbolt.
    - jusben1369 12y ago
      Is that a technical term? :)
- abalone 12y ago
  But that's not true, is it? The old interfaces are generally still supported with adapters, like this. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD824ZM/A/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter-02-m http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD824ZM/A/lightning-to-30-... So at worst you can complain that existing equipment may require an adapter. That seems like a fair price for progress to me.
  - jusben1369 12y ago
    I mean if I buy an iPhone 6 my 3 chargers + 2 car chargers + Bose audio device are now junked. Thats all I mean.
    - astrodust 12y ago
      They kept the 30-pin connector around far, far longer than most companies kept their proprietary power or data connectors. When they switched it was to something robust enough they wouldn't need to fiddle with it for a long time. Standards change, but at least this one hasn't changed very often. I think "once" is an allowable amount of change.
dogecoinbase 12y ago
Totally! And moreover, Apple's been on this get-rid-of-all-the-cables kick since at least the introduction of AudioVision 14 Display... in 1993. Anyone else remember the NeXT's unified power/display/keyboard/mouse/audio cable? ADC cables that passed power, display, and USB through the Cinema displays? Aside from not relying on outside technologies for their success, eliminating cables has basically been Apple's central theme since (and before) their comeback. At least it's based on a standard this time.
- fuzzywalrus 12y ago
  While Apple has been in the business of simplifying ports there is a difference at least in previous cases we were ready to move on I'd argue. Back in 1999 I don't think I had used a floppy for a few years, zip drives? Sure, but not a floppy. Dropping the optical drive was bound to happen, I don't think I've really used a optical media bay outside of a game console for years. However, every day at work, I plug my MacBook Retina into two monitors, plug in my USB 3.0 drive, sometimes my iPhone to charge or do dev stuffs, and charger, and frequently use my SD card slot as a 3rd HDD. Apple now is in the business of offloading the problem of I/O to the user, they haven't fixed it. It wouldn't have hurt the MacBook to include 2-4 ports, all USB3c
  - pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
    define "hurt". having a single port simplifies the hardware bridge. multiplexing that to 4 ports would draw more power. what if you could have a battery that lasted 8 hours on a charge, or 8 hours and 20 minutes. what if the difference was only 5 minutes? what if it was an hour? pretty obvious then. with portable devices, battery life should trump most things.
  - epistasis 12y ago
    I'm more than ready to move on to this, and would have been ready years ago. In 1999, floppy disk use was far more prevalent than the need for multiple USB ports is now. For your described use case, you'll just plug your Macbook into a USB3 hub or dongle with HDMI (I don't think this machine has enough graphics power for multiple external screens). You will actually have fewer cables to manage. And it actually would hurt the Macbook to include more ports. The current port is above the keyboard, likely because it can't fit under the keyboard. Adding more ports would mean increasing one of the dimensions. Given the versatility of the USB3C port, I think it's the best possible tradeoff. If you absolutely use lots of ports day to day, and can't use a hub, then this really isn't the computer for you, and Apple will even sell you one of those.
grey-area 12y ago
I think it's great that Apple has replaced all those ports with USB-C, and as you point out it is exactly in line with previous decisions to prune almost obsolete tech which turned out very well. There will be a lot of unjustified moaning and then people will be happy when the whole world runs on USB-C (at last, one fast standard for connectors that everyone can agree on). I'd rather have two USB-C ports though than a pointless little audio jack - they should have put one on either side as Google have on their pixel. People could use bluetooth headphones with it if they really couldn't find some other place for the headphone jack, but I'm sure they could have squeezed it in if they tried hard enough. As it is one port is rather limiting (yes I know it shares data and power). It'd be nice to be able to charge an iphone and charge the computer at the same time, so on port means many people will require a hub. They should also have sorted out their monitors with a refresh which actually functions as a hub for USB-A and USB-C - perhaps they'll do that before launch or I hope soon after.
Alupis 12y ago
> we'll all be so happy with the obvious (in hindsight) decision to switch to USB-C. I don't think the issue is the inclusion of USB-C -- in fact, USB-C offers a lot. I think the issue is only having one connector on the entire laptop. What happens if that port fails or beaks? Your laptop stops working...
- moe 12y ago
  What happens if that port fails or beaks? Your laptop stops working... I'm not a fan of their single-port decision either, but in fairness: Every laptop stops working when the charging port breaks. No matter how many other ports it may have.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    > Every laptop stops working when the charging port breaks That is true, however if you are using the same port for a multitude of things (plugging/unplugging USB sticks, monitors, etc...) it's going to get a lot more use, and therefore increases the likelihood of something breaking. I've broken USB ports before on laptops, usually by crushing the floating center plastic thing (USB cable gets ripped out weirdly or something), but I have other USB ports so life goes on. USB-C has the same center floating plastic bit -- just waiting for it to get broken off. DC ports tend to be pretty robust, but do break from time-to-time. Apple's solution to this was the Magsafe connector, which avoided the issue for the most part. Seems like a step backwards for laptops to now rely on a single, potentially fragile port for everything.
    - riquito 12y ago
      > That is true, however if you are using the same port for a multitude of things (plugging/unplugging USB sticks, monitors, etc...) it's going to get a lot more use, and therefore increases the likelihood of something breaking. By design it allows at least 10000 cycles of insertion/removal. Using it 8 times a day every single day you'd need about 3.5 years to end them. It's probably ok for most workloads.
      - 12y ago
tjoff 12y ago
Yeah, every day you are reminded because someone forgot their apple adapter. It's nothing but pathetic. Optical drives and floppy discs were obvious, they were never used on a daily basis when they were removed and that they remained so long in laptops (macs included) is just astounding. But something like Ethernet is just ludicrous. Unfortunately, if you want a slim laptop Ethernet will have to go - but it sure as hell will be missed in the coming decade. Non-replacable batteries... Another milestone? No one was stupid enough to come up with that before apple, and thanks to that we all have to throw away all of our devices after a few years. But who cares, right?
- jessaustin 12y ago
  I agree that ethernet is valuable, which is why I keep a usb-ethernet adapter with me.
- cesarb 12y ago
  > Unfortunately, if you want a slim laptop Ethernet will have to go Am I the only one who still remembers PCMCIA cards (thinner than most slim laptops) with Ethernet ports? Here, an example from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XJACK_network_card_extended.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XJACK_network_card_extend...
  - 4ad 12y ago
    You have to plug the non-part-of-the-laptop PCMCIA card, just like you have to plug the non-part-of-the-laptop USB adapter. Not much big of a difference.
    - tjoff 12y ago
      The difference is that the PCMCIA card doesn't extrude from the laptop. That thing is awesome, never seen one. I've only seen those that have either a large RJ45 connector extruding from the card, like: http://www.automation-drive.com/EX/05-13-21/a88fa.jpg http://www.automation-drive.com/EX/05-13-21/a88fa.jpg Or where you'd needed an adapter dongle that connected to the PCMCIA card. I know there was a laptop or at least a concept of it with something similar to the (parent) XJACK connector, but have never seen it in real life. Would love to see them in ultrabooks.
chetanahuja 12y ago
"At this point, I find this whole thing funny. Again" Yup. It's more than just funny. The number of people I know who are carrying around "our thinnest, lightest macbook yet" with a bagful of adaptors that weigh more than the laptop is HILARIOUS. As for me, I'm carrying around a 2012 Macbook Pro (the last model with a non-glossy screen). Even though my work involves dealing with iOS projects etc., my next laptop will probably be running Linux and I'll learn to rely on my iMac for iOS specific work.
- jsz0 12y ago
  > bagful of adaptors that weigh more than the laptop They would have to carry around somewhere between 30 to 50 adapters to reach 2 pounds. I'm excluding the power adapter since that's a baseline for any laptop.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    But doesn't the giant bag of fiddly adapters become more cumbersome than just a laptop with everything built into it? Like your parent, I am running a non-retina 2012 MBP and it's great - no need for an array of tangled adapters. It's all in there.
xasos 12y ago
I agree. Decisions like this move technology forward (for the good or bad)
hobarrera 12y ago
> Remember the outrage when Apple removed floppy disk drives? Optical drives? Ethernet ports? Not really. What outrage? Floppy and Optical drives were dropped when they were already old. I remember some people complaining about the lack of USB, but you can get a thunderbolt<->ethernet adapter when you purchase it. Also, an ethernet port itself if thicker than the laptop itself, so it's understandable.
lmm 12y ago
Lack of optical drive is still annoying. And I still have a good laugh every time I watch an Apple user trying to give a presentation, struggling to connect to wifi because they don't have an ethernet port, and then not having the right adapter to connect to the projector. Or failing to find a charger for their phone. You're right that this is classic Apple, but I wouldn't call any of those decisions obviously right. And there have been plenty of bad calls along the way - remember when Apple tried to get you to use Firewire hard drives rather than USB? Remember PERCH? Remember those magnetic ethernet cables? Having fun adaptering back and forth between DisplayPort and Thunderbolt?
wtbob 12y ago
> Nobody is bemoaning the fact that they can't watch a DVD on their laptop - we've moved on from optical media. I bemoan that about my work laptop. It's not possible to legally stream all the things I'd like to watch, and for whatever reason building USB boot drives is still more painful than burning ISOs to DVDs or CDs (no good reason for that, but each time it's been the case).

bonaldi 12y ago

> Nobody complains about how thin their phone is now that the old 30pin connector is no longer the limiting factor on size Yeah, they do. Ask someone whose iPhone has just died (again) if they'd take it being a bit thicker with a bit more battery, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't make the trade. And I personally still miss living in a world where no matter where you went you were never more than 5 feet from a 30-pin cable.

mwfunk 12y ago
FWIW, my anecdotal experience is the exact opposite of your anecdotal experience, which I guess is the nature of such things.
- bonaldi 12y ago
  Which part? Everyone you know prefers thinness over battery life? Or prefers having fewer compatible cables around?

jusben1369 12y ago

I understand your general point and think it holds true. However, I would say in my mind that the way Apple can decide to change their connector and suddenly make redundant a full range of downstream devices (house and car chargers, general chargers, audio equipment) is a real negative and one of the 3 or 4 things that keeps me from moving back over from Android.

bduerst 12y ago
3rd party market lock-in is one of the reasons I switched to Android too. I understand Apple is out to make money like everyone else, but skipping micro-usb is (from my perspective) not a product enhancement. Their delayed support on NFC arguably killed the user adoption for the tech as well, but i digress.
- benaiah 12y ago
  Using open standards would be an Android plus for me too, if micro-usb didn't suck ass compared to Thunderbolt.
  - jusben1369 12y ago
    Is that a technical term? :)
abalone 12y ago
But that's not true, is it? The old interfaces are generally still supported with adapters, like this. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD824ZM/A/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter-02-m http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD824ZM/A/lightning-to-30-... So at worst you can complain that existing equipment may require an adapter. That seems like a fair price for progress to me.
- jusben1369 12y ago
  I mean if I buy an iPhone 6 my 3 chargers + 2 car chargers + Bose audio device are now junked. Thats all I mean.
  - astrodust 12y ago
    They kept the 30-pin connector around far, far longer than most companies kept their proprietary power or data connectors. When they switched it was to something robust enough they wouldn't need to fiddle with it for a long time. Standards change, but at least this one hasn't changed very often. I think "once" is an allowable amount of change.

dogecoinbase 12y ago

Totally! And moreover, Apple's been on this get-rid-of-all-the-cables kick since at least the introduction of AudioVision 14 Display... in 1993. Anyone else remember the NeXT's unified power/display/keyboard/mouse/audio cable? ADC cables that passed power, display, and USB through the Cinema displays? Aside from not relying on outside technologies for their success, eliminating cables has basically been Apple's central theme since (and before) their comeback. At least it's based on a standard this time.

fuzzywalrus 12y ago
While Apple has been in the business of simplifying ports there is a difference at least in previous cases we were ready to move on I'd argue. Back in 1999 I don't think I had used a floppy for a few years, zip drives? Sure, but not a floppy. Dropping the optical drive was bound to happen, I don't think I've really used a optical media bay outside of a game console for years. However, every day at work, I plug my MacBook Retina into two monitors, plug in my USB 3.0 drive, sometimes my iPhone to charge or do dev stuffs, and charger, and frequently use my SD card slot as a 3rd HDD. Apple now is in the business of offloading the problem of I/O to the user, they haven't fixed it. It wouldn't have hurt the MacBook to include 2-4 ports, all USB3c
- pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
  define "hurt". having a single port simplifies the hardware bridge. multiplexing that to 4 ports would draw more power. what if you could have a battery that lasted 8 hours on a charge, or 8 hours and 20 minutes. what if the difference was only 5 minutes? what if it was an hour? pretty obvious then. with portable devices, battery life should trump most things.
- epistasis 12y ago
  I'm more than ready to move on to this, and would have been ready years ago. In 1999, floppy disk use was far more prevalent than the need for multiple USB ports is now. For your described use case, you'll just plug your Macbook into a USB3 hub or dongle with HDMI (I don't think this machine has enough graphics power for multiple external screens). You will actually have fewer cables to manage. And it actually would hurt the Macbook to include more ports. The current port is above the keyboard, likely because it can't fit under the keyboard. Adding more ports would mean increasing one of the dimensions. Given the versatility of the USB3C port, I think it's the best possible tradeoff. If you absolutely use lots of ports day to day, and can't use a hub, then this really isn't the computer for you, and Apple will even sell you one of those.

grey-area 12y ago

I think it's great that Apple has replaced all those ports with USB-C, and as you point out it is exactly in line with previous decisions to prune almost obsolete tech which turned out very well. There will be a lot of unjustified moaning and then people will be happy when the whole world runs on USB-C (at last, one fast standard for connectors that everyone can agree on). I'd rather have two USB-C ports though than a pointless little audio jack - they should have put one on either side as Google have on their pixel. People could use bluetooth headphones with it if they really couldn't find some other place for the headphone jack, but I'm sure they could have squeezed it in if they tried hard enough. As it is one port is rather limiting (yes I know it shares data and power). It'd be nice to be able to charge an iphone and charge the computer at the same time, so on port means many people will require a hub. They should also have sorted out their monitors with a refresh which actually functions as a hub for USB-A and USB-C - perhaps they'll do that before launch or I hope soon after.

Alupis 12y ago

> we'll all be so happy with the obvious (in hindsight) decision to switch to USB-C. I don't think the issue is the inclusion of USB-C -- in fact, USB-C offers a lot. I think the issue is only having one connector on the entire laptop. What happens if that port fails or beaks? Your laptop stops working...

moe 12y ago
What happens if that port fails or beaks? Your laptop stops working... I'm not a fan of their single-port decision either, but in fairness: Every laptop stops working when the charging port breaks. No matter how many other ports it may have.
- Alupis 12y ago
  > Every laptop stops working when the charging port breaks That is true, however if you are using the same port for a multitude of things (plugging/unplugging USB sticks, monitors, etc...) it's going to get a lot more use, and therefore increases the likelihood of something breaking. I've broken USB ports before on laptops, usually by crushing the floating center plastic thing (USB cable gets ripped out weirdly or something), but I have other USB ports so life goes on. USB-C has the same center floating plastic bit -- just waiting for it to get broken off. DC ports tend to be pretty robust, but do break from time-to-time. Apple's solution to this was the Magsafe connector, which avoided the issue for the most part. Seems like a step backwards for laptops to now rely on a single, potentially fragile port for everything.
  - riquito 12y ago
    > That is true, however if you are using the same port for a multitude of things (plugging/unplugging USB sticks, monitors, etc...) it's going to get a lot more use, and therefore increases the likelihood of something breaking. By design it allows at least 10000 cycles of insertion/removal. Using it 8 times a day every single day you'd need about 3.5 years to end them. It's probably ok for most workloads.
    - 12y ago

tjoff 12y ago

Yeah, every day you are reminded because someone forgot their apple adapter. It's nothing but pathetic. Optical drives and floppy discs were obvious, they were never used on a daily basis when they were removed and that they remained so long in laptops (macs included) is just astounding. But something like Ethernet is just ludicrous. Unfortunately, if you want a slim laptop Ethernet will have to go - but it sure as hell will be missed in the coming decade. Non-replacable batteries... Another milestone? No one was stupid enough to come up with that before apple, and thanks to that we all have to throw away all of our devices after a few years. But who cares, right?

jessaustin 12y ago
I agree that ethernet is valuable, which is why I keep a usb-ethernet adapter with me.
cesarb 12y ago
> Unfortunately, if you want a slim laptop Ethernet will have to go Am I the only one who still remembers PCMCIA cards (thinner than most slim laptops) with Ethernet ports? Here, an example from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XJACK_network_card_extended.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XJACK_network_card_extend...
- 4ad 12y ago
  You have to plug the non-part-of-the-laptop PCMCIA card, just like you have to plug the non-part-of-the-laptop USB adapter. Not much big of a difference.
  - tjoff 12y ago
    The difference is that the PCMCIA card doesn't extrude from the laptop. That thing is awesome, never seen one. I've only seen those that have either a large RJ45 connector extruding from the card, like: http://www.automation-drive.com/EX/05-13-21/a88fa.jpg http://www.automation-drive.com/EX/05-13-21/a88fa.jpg Or where you'd needed an adapter dongle that connected to the PCMCIA card. I know there was a laptop or at least a concept of it with something similar to the (parent) XJACK connector, but have never seen it in real life. Would love to see them in ultrabooks.

chetanahuja 12y ago

"At this point, I find this whole thing funny. Again" Yup. It's more than just funny. The number of people I know who are carrying around "our thinnest, lightest macbook yet" with a bagful of adaptors that weigh more than the laptop is HILARIOUS. As for me, I'm carrying around a 2012 Macbook Pro (the last model with a non-glossy screen). Even though my work involves dealing with iOS projects etc., my next laptop will probably be running Linux and I'll learn to rely on my iMac for iOS specific work.

jsz0 12y ago
> bagful of adaptors that weigh more than the laptop They would have to carry around somewhere between 30 to 50 adapters to reach 2 pounds. I'm excluding the power adapter since that's a baseline for any laptop.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  But doesn't the giant bag of fiddly adapters become more cumbersome than just a laptop with everything built into it? Like your parent, I am running a non-retina 2012 MBP and it's great - no need for an array of tangled adapters. It's all in there.

xasos 12y ago

I agree. Decisions like this move technology forward (for the good or bad)

hobarrera 12y ago

> Remember the outrage when Apple removed floppy disk drives? Optical drives? Ethernet ports? Not really. What outrage? Floppy and Optical drives were dropped when they were already old. I remember some people complaining about the lack of USB, but you can get a thunderbolt<->ethernet adapter when you purchase it. Also, an ethernet port itself if thicker than the laptop itself, so it's understandable.

lmm 12y ago

Lack of optical drive is still annoying. And I still have a good laugh every time I watch an Apple user trying to give a presentation, struggling to connect to wifi because they don't have an ethernet port, and then not having the right adapter to connect to the projector. Or failing to find a charger for their phone. You're right that this is classic Apple, but I wouldn't call any of those decisions obviously right. And there have been plenty of bad calls along the way - remember when Apple tried to get you to use Firewire hard drives rather than USB? Remember PERCH? Remember those magnetic ethernet cables? Having fun adaptering back and forth between DisplayPort and Thunderbolt?

wtbob 12y ago

> Nobody is bemoaning the fact that they can't watch a DVD on their laptop - we've moved on from optical media. I bemoan that about my work laptop. It's not possible to legally stream all the things I'd like to watch, and for whatever reason building USB boot drives is still more painful than burning ISOs to DVDs or CDs (no good reason for that, but each time it's been the case).