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The fun begins when people start going out to places currently not well-served by the usual mapping services -- places they normally wouldn't think of going, wi

The fun begins when people start going out to places currently not well-served by the usual mapping services -- places they normally wouldn't think of going, without extraordinary precautions -- thinking "Hey great, looks like we have this stuff everywhere now. Ain't everything just swell, here in The Future?" Until of course tricky weather or something else happens, and suddenly, they don't. http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/137646147/the-gps-a-fatally-misleading-travel-companion http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/137646147/the-gps-a-fatally-mi...

jsprogrammer 12y ago
The difference with GPS is that these balloons (I assume) allow two-way communication, so if you are in trouble you can call for help and there's a good chance someone will actually be able to respond AND know your exact location.
- dreamweapon 12y ago
  Until the day comes when balloons stop working for some reason. That's when the fun begins.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    As someone with experience of working in remote environments like deserts for weeks at a time, and is thus aware of both the benefits and limitations of technology, can I suggest that you give your smug muscle a rest? I find that people who are at pains to point out how much smarter they are than everyone else get in the way when there's actual work to be done.
    - dreamweapon 12y ago
      Empirical evidence gleaned from day-to-day observation (not to mention numerous news reports) suggest that a significant portion of the population is basically clueless about the limitations of this technology. They're also basically addicted to it (as in: a fair number of otherwise intelligent, well-educated people I know apparently can't, to save their own lives, navigate their own neighborhoods with a mapping service -- whereas 5 years ago they may have just been mildly impaired at the task). But if you feel the need to attack someone you'll most likely never see or meet as being "smug" for tangentially pointing out this fact (ironically backed by exultations of your own vastly superior experience in both technology remote environments) -- instead of minding whatever work someone is presumably paying you to be doing at this time, as we speak -- well, do what you need to do, I guess.
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        There's a difference between pointing out that some new technology is likely to have some negative externalities, and framing that observation within repeated sarcastic comments about 'when the fun begins'.
        dreamweapon 12y ago
        You're reading too much into it. The person I responded to (at the second iteration) seemed not to be aware of precisely these externalities -- so I was providing clarification, nothing more.
  - mejari 12y ago
    You could say this for literally any technology. I don't understand your point.
- sedachv 12y ago
  What is going to happen more and more is search and rescue crews overburdened with saving all the clueless, unprepared morons who think that nothing can happen to them because their cellphone is getting two bars, leading to increased trail closures: http://ktla.com/2014/06/26/popular-dangerous-path-to-eaton-canyons-upper-falls-to-be-closed/ http://ktla.com/2014/06/26/popular-dangerous-path-to-eaton-c...
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Is that a case of the trail becoming popular because it is on maps? The link doesn't talk about that aspect of it, just that it is not an officially maintained trail and more rescues/recoveries have taken place in recent years.
  - towelguy 12y ago
    I wonder if rescue teams could use some sort of portable cell towers (thinking something like the Google [streetview backpack](http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/trekking-grand-canyon-for-google-maps.html) http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/trekking-grand-canyon...) to find cellphones and people.
    - sedachv 12y ago
      Locating lost/stranded hikers is definitely resource intensive, but you still have to extract them from the area. In that particular case (Eaton Canyon waterfalls), the number of rescues performed by the Forest Service (most of them by helicopter) had climbed to an average of two a week in the year before the closure. That's an unbelievably high number that's caused directly by stupid, unprepared people stranding themselves. Closing the trail was definitely the right decision there. The only other alternative is "we are not going to rescue people anymore because we don't have the manpower and cannot afford to fly our helicopters so much." Rescuers had no trouble locating these idiots: http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/10/third-time-was-anything-charming-%E2%80%93-spot-misuse-grand-canyon-national-park4790 http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/10/third-time-was-... This is a very real, big and growing problem for wilderness rescue services: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html
cpeterso 12y ago
Individuals could have a drone balloon (or a daisy chain of them) that follows them to remote areas to provide cell coverage.
- sedachv 12y ago
  This problem is already addressed by several lines of popular satellite communications products: http://www.findmespot.com/en/ http://www.findmespot.com/en/
aaron695 12y ago
This comment is bizarre. First the link you have is about people taking outdated/wrong maps on trips, not about technology that might disappear due to conditions. Second 'when people....' you just made up to prove some weird point. Why are people going to suddenly go crazy because there is 4G access everywhere? We all know batteries run out and things break. Normal precautions are all still needed. Because this technology might allow silly people do something silly in a different location we concentrate on that rather than all the lives it will save?

jsprogrammer 12y ago

The difference with GPS is that these balloons (I assume) allow two-way communication, so if you are in trouble you can call for help and there's a good chance someone will actually be able to respond AND know your exact location.

dreamweapon 12y ago
Until the day comes when balloons stop working for some reason. That's when the fun begins.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  As someone with experience of working in remote environments like deserts for weeks at a time, and is thus aware of both the benefits and limitations of technology, can I suggest that you give your smug muscle a rest? I find that people who are at pains to point out how much smarter they are than everyone else get in the way when there's actual work to be done.
  - dreamweapon 12y ago
    Empirical evidence gleaned from day-to-day observation (not to mention numerous news reports) suggest that a significant portion of the population is basically clueless about the limitations of this technology. They're also basically addicted to it (as in: a fair number of otherwise intelligent, well-educated people I know apparently can't, to save their own lives, navigate their own neighborhoods with a mapping service -- whereas 5 years ago they may have just been mildly impaired at the task). But if you feel the need to attack someone you'll most likely never see or meet as being "smug" for tangentially pointing out this fact (ironically backed by exultations of your own vastly superior experience in both technology remote environments) -- instead of minding whatever work someone is presumably paying you to be doing at this time, as we speak -- well, do what you need to do, I guess.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      There's a difference between pointing out that some new technology is likely to have some negative externalities, and framing that observation within repeated sarcastic comments about 'when the fun begins'.
      - dreamweapon 12y ago
        You're reading too much into it. The person I responded to (at the second iteration) seemed not to be aware of precisely these externalities -- so I was providing clarification, nothing more.
- mejari 12y ago
  You could say this for literally any technology. I don't understand your point.
sedachv 12y ago
What is going to happen more and more is search and rescue crews overburdened with saving all the clueless, unprepared morons who think that nothing can happen to them because their cellphone is getting two bars, leading to increased trail closures: http://ktla.com/2014/06/26/popular-dangerous-path-to-eaton-canyons-upper-falls-to-be-closed/ http://ktla.com/2014/06/26/popular-dangerous-path-to-eaton-c...
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Is that a case of the trail becoming popular because it is on maps? The link doesn't talk about that aspect of it, just that it is not an officially maintained trail and more rescues/recoveries have taken place in recent years.
- towelguy 12y ago
  I wonder if rescue teams could use some sort of portable cell towers (thinking something like the Google [streetview backpack](http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/trekking-grand-canyon-for-google-maps.html) http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/trekking-grand-canyon...) to find cellphones and people.
  - sedachv 12y ago
    Locating lost/stranded hikers is definitely resource intensive, but you still have to extract them from the area. In that particular case (Eaton Canyon waterfalls), the number of rescues performed by the Forest Service (most of them by helicopter) had climbed to an average of two a week in the year before the closure. That's an unbelievably high number that's caused directly by stupid, unprepared people stranding themselves. Closing the trail was definitely the right decision there. The only other alternative is "we are not going to rescue people anymore because we don't have the manpower and cannot afford to fly our helicopters so much." Rescuers had no trouble locating these idiots: http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/10/third-time-was-anything-charming-%E2%80%93-spot-misuse-grand-canyon-national-park4790 http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/10/third-time-was-... This is a very real, big and growing problem for wilderness rescue services: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html

cpeterso 12y ago

Individuals could have a drone balloon (or a daisy chain of them) that follows them to remote areas to provide cell coverage.

sedachv 12y ago
This problem is already addressed by several lines of popular satellite communications products: http://www.findmespot.com/en/ http://www.findmespot.com/en/

aaron695 12y ago

This comment is bizarre. First the link you have is about people taking outdated/wrong maps on trips, not about technology that might disappear due to conditions. Second 'when people....' you just made up to prove some weird point. Why are people going to suddenly go crazy because there is 4G access everywhere? We all know batteries run out and things break. Normal precautions are all still needed. Because this technology might allow silly people do something silly in a different location we concentrate on that rather than all the lives it will save?