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I understand what was being said. But in my experience many groups say this but in fact don't even come close to actually achieving it. Groups of white males

I understand what was being said. But in my experience many groups say this but in fact don't even come close to actually achieving it. Groups of white males have said this for a long time, "we are merit based, gender or ethnicity aren't considered during selection", but it just wasn't true. Much of the time it is a conscious decision to avoid the qualified diverse candidate, other times it isn't. Just because she or you say you are only choosing based on production doesn't make it so. She, you, or whomever is making the decision must look really hard at their own biases, if you can even see them (they may be obvious to anyone around you but hidden to your self).

reitanqild 12y ago
> I understand what was being said. But in my experience many groups say this but in fact don't even come close to actually achieving it. Groups of white males have said this for a long time, ...right in front of our very noses at this moment is something very interesting: me atleast I don't have a clue what gender most nicks here on HN belong to. And I don't care. The same way I don't care about the gender of our UX designer only that she did awesome work. - well, maybe I actually loved the fact that we had a coding eclipse-wielding mother-of-three on our team. And before "you" [1] come telling me that this just shows how I'm biased because I'm impressed by a mom coding, -No! I don't think they cannot, but every statistic tells us they don't usually code. [1]: yeah I saw you coming, you are kind of predictable
- modfodder 12y ago
  That's great. If there were more people like you in positions of power we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not implying that anyone of these particular commenters are sexist or bigots, or aren't making decisions solely based on merit. I'm saying that we as a group, be that either widely defined as humans in general or narrowly defined as a certain group of nerds, tend to not notice our biases when we make decisions. We may believe that we are making a choice based on the absolute best merit based criteria, but often we don't realize our choice was highly tinted by learned bias. I myself try to disregard my learned biases, but often don't realize I failed until after the fact. We need more people who don't care about gender, race, social status, etc when making hiring decisions. Studies have shown that when identifying markers are removed from resumes and job applications, the considered pool of applicants become more diverse. A good start is people who are at least aware of their own biases. Too often we use statistics to enforce our bias. "Well, moms statistically don't code, so we won't take seriously this mother who does".
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    Totally agree. > I myself try to disregard my learned biases, but often don't realize I failed until after the fact. Part of being human and why we should be very careful to judge. I'm in the same place.
Klockan 12y ago
Asians got in rather easily though so the effect of workplace biases can't be that hard to overcome. Why did they get accepted? Because they are awesome at tech! If women suddenly became as awesome at tech as Asians then they would get accepted as a group in a heartbeat.

reitanqild 12y ago

> I understand what was being said. But in my experience many groups say this but in fact don't even come close to actually achieving it. Groups of white males have said this for a long time, ...right in front of our very noses at this moment is something very interesting: me atleast I don't have a clue what gender most nicks here on HN belong to. And I don't care. The same way I don't care about the gender of our UX designer only that she did awesome work. - well, maybe I actually loved the fact that we had a coding eclipse-wielding mother-of-three on our team. And before "you" [1] come telling me that this just shows how I'm biased because I'm impressed by a mom coding, -No! I don't think they cannot, but every statistic tells us they don't usually code. [1]: yeah I saw you coming, you are kind of predictable

modfodder 12y ago
That's great. If there were more people like you in positions of power we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not implying that anyone of these particular commenters are sexist or bigots, or aren't making decisions solely based on merit. I'm saying that we as a group, be that either widely defined as humans in general or narrowly defined as a certain group of nerds, tend to not notice our biases when we make decisions. We may believe that we are making a choice based on the absolute best merit based criteria, but often we don't realize our choice was highly tinted by learned bias. I myself try to disregard my learned biases, but often don't realize I failed until after the fact. We need more people who don't care about gender, race, social status, etc when making hiring decisions. Studies have shown that when identifying markers are removed from resumes and job applications, the considered pool of applicants become more diverse. A good start is people who are at least aware of their own biases. Too often we use statistics to enforce our bias. "Well, moms statistically don't code, so we won't take seriously this mother who does".
- reitanqild 12y ago
  Totally agree. > I myself try to disregard my learned biases, but often don't realize I failed until after the fact. Part of being human and why we should be very careful to judge. I'm in the same place.

Klockan 12y ago

Asians got in rather easily though so the effect of workplace biases can't be that hard to overcome. Why did they get accepted? Because they are awesome at tech! If women suddenly became as awesome at tech as Asians then they would get accepted as a group in a heartbeat.