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Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weir

by hueving 12y ago

Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave. It's a perfect example of counter-productive, oppressive behavior that was outlined in this article. Do you think getting that guy fired is going to suddenly change his sense of humor? Not likely. If anything, it's going to poison his view of feminists in the field by coloring them all as psychopaths willing to do anything to push an agenda rather than focus on the actual technology the community was originally built around.

Potando 12y ago
Hold on. The only scumbag that got the guy fired was his employer. Will your boss fire you if you get harassed on Twitter?
- hueving 12y ago
  Yes, if someone launches an Internet lynch mob of social justice warriors at me that threatens the business, of course I would be fired. No company wants to be perceived as "the place that employs the most-hated sexist in the world" if they depend on selling to regular people. An Internet lynch mob can ruin SE rankings, launch DDoS attacks, etc. Anything that attracts one is a liability.
  - throwaway9324 12y ago
    It would never have reached the proportions it did if it wasn't for all the people "defending" the guy and then keep bringing it up time and time again to make an argument.
    - reitanqild 12y ago
      You got it kind of backwards. He was already fired by the time the "East side of Internet" reacted. As for this being brought up again and again: it is a very good example and I can't recall the person in question ever coming up with a real apology.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    That is of course a very stupid behaviour of such company - by letting someone go because of SE rankings or DDoS attacks of angry, misguided crowd, you're just showing that this is a great way to influence you. So the next time the misguided crowd wants you to fire someone? They'll find something to get themselves offended about, get angry and DDoS you.
    - Thriptic 12y ago
      Companies are inherently shortsighted and beholden to their customers and shareholders (in public companies). Prolonged social attacks against a company may drive customers away or drop stock value, both of which negatively impact the company (and more importantly management) far more than letting one employee go. This probably significantly harms employee morale, but I doubt that's their primary concern.
      - TeMPOraL 12y ago
        I know the reasoning, but I suspect it's based on wrong assumptions. Management is afraid of taking a stand and doing the right thing, even though it would most likely end up well for the company, not bad. I see this as risk aversion.
anon4 12y ago
From http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/books/7933/exclusive-extract-from-jon-ronson-book-so-youve-been-publicly-shamed/ http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/books/7933/exclusive-extrac... which was linked here not long ago: I asked Hank if he found himself behaving differently since the incident. Had it altered how he lived his life? “I distance myself from female developers a little bit now,” he replied. “I’m not as friendly. There’s humour, but it’s very mundane. You just don’t know. I can’t afford another Donglegate.” So I guess it poisons his view of the entire gender.
- forgottenpass 12y ago
  So I guess it poisons his view of the entire gender. It's pleasing to think that ineffective activism is zero-sum. In reality a lot of people have been turned off to ideas that fit their principles and ideals. Getting them back is going to take much more work than it would have taken to appeal to their principles before they got burned.
- john_butts 12y ago
  Orrrrr it brings him into line with appropriate workplace expectations in a world not dominated by dudes.
- hypatiadotca 12y ago
  Honestly I'm pretty happy if dudes like that stay the fuck away from me. Sounds like a win-win!
eaton 12y ago
> Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave. A conference attendee overheard another conference attendee making dick jokes in a public space at a conference, violating the terms of the CoC that he'd agreed to before attending. She reported him and posted it on her Twitter feed, complaining about it. He was reprimanded by the conference organizers, and apologized When he returned to his work, he was fired—and he immediately posted to HN that she'd gotten him fired. He found a new job, while she was subjected to two years of personal threats, identity theft, employer-targeted DDoS attacks, and chan grief. She still is to this day. If you think that reporting someone for violating an conference code of conduct is the 'most hostile, weird, and hateful' way you've ever seen someone behave, you aren't watching very closely.
- reitanqild 12y ago
  There's more to it than that. 1. The words were never meant for her 2. She didn't contact him, maybe she misheard? 3. She was, in fact, way more powerful than him (privilege) 4. She has a history of being a professional victim 5. -and a history of making similarly bad jokes herself, publicly
  - bkirwi 12y ago
    It's an odd definition of personal privilege you have, where the privileged person suffers two years of harassment and abuse, and the person without privilege immediately returns to a lucrative career. It's also an odd definition of professional victim, where publicly being a 'victim' results in you getting booted out of the profession. I don't want to comment on the event itself here -- but I think that the aftermath, and the continued reaction to it, say a lot of sad things about the tech community.
    - reitanqild 12y ago
      > It's an odd definition of personal privilege you have, Which is most privileged: * Developer evangelist vs developer-on-the-floor * 10 000 twitter followers vs nothing > It's also an odd definition of professional victim, where publicly being a 'victim' results in you getting booted out of the profession. Why she was booted from her profession was because she misused her position, -in a way that caused significant harm to the employer.
LordHumungous 12y ago
Wait wait wait. Hacker culture is all about radical honesty and voicing your opinion without regard to hurting others feelings... Except when its a woman voicing an opinion about something she finds offensive.

by hueving 12y ago

Potando 12y ago

Hold on. The only scumbag that got the guy fired was his employer. Will your boss fire you if you get harassed on Twitter?

hueving 12y ago
Yes, if someone launches an Internet lynch mob of social justice warriors at me that threatens the business, of course I would be fired. No company wants to be perceived as "the place that employs the most-hated sexist in the world" if they depend on selling to regular people. An Internet lynch mob can ruin SE rankings, launch DDoS attacks, etc. Anything that attracts one is a liability.
- throwaway9324 12y ago
  It would never have reached the proportions it did if it wasn't for all the people "defending" the guy and then keep bringing it up time and time again to make an argument.
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    You got it kind of backwards. He was already fired by the time the "East side of Internet" reacted. As for this being brought up again and again: it is a very good example and I can't recall the person in question ever coming up with a real apology.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  That is of course a very stupid behaviour of such company - by letting someone go because of SE rankings or DDoS attacks of angry, misguided crowd, you're just showing that this is a great way to influence you. So the next time the misguided crowd wants you to fire someone? They'll find something to get themselves offended about, get angry and DDoS you.
  - Thriptic 12y ago
    Companies are inherently shortsighted and beholden to their customers and shareholders (in public companies). Prolonged social attacks against a company may drive customers away or drop stock value, both of which negatively impact the company (and more importantly management) far more than letting one employee go. This probably significantly harms employee morale, but I doubt that's their primary concern.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      I know the reasoning, but I suspect it's based on wrong assumptions. Management is afraid of taking a stand and doing the right thing, even though it would most likely end up well for the company, not bad. I see this as risk aversion.

anon4 12y ago

From http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/books/7933/exclusive-extract-from-jon-ronson-book-so-youve-been-publicly-shamed/ http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/books/7933/exclusive-extrac... which was linked here not long ago: I asked Hank if he found himself behaving differently since the incident. Had it altered how he lived his life? “I distance myself from female developers a little bit now,” he replied. “I’m not as friendly. There’s humour, but it’s very mundane. You just don’t know. I can’t afford another Donglegate.” So I guess it poisons his view of the entire gender.

forgottenpass 12y ago
So I guess it poisons his view of the entire gender. It's pleasing to think that ineffective activism is zero-sum. In reality a lot of people have been turned off to ideas that fit their principles and ideals. Getting them back is going to take much more work than it would have taken to appeal to their principles before they got burned.
john_butts 12y ago
Orrrrr it brings him into line with appropriate workplace expectations in a world not dominated by dudes.
hypatiadotca 12y ago
Honestly I'm pretty happy if dudes like that stay the fuck away from me. Sounds like a win-win!

eaton 12y ago

> Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave. A conference attendee overheard another conference attendee making dick jokes in a public space at a conference, violating the terms of the CoC that he'd agreed to before attending. She reported him and posted it on her Twitter feed, complaining about it. He was reprimanded by the conference organizers, and apologized When he returned to his work, he was fired—and he immediately posted to HN that she'd gotten him fired. He found a new job, while she was subjected to two years of personal threats, identity theft, employer-targeted DDoS attacks, and chan grief. She still is to this day. If you think that reporting someone for violating an conference code of conduct is the 'most hostile, weird, and hateful' way you've ever seen someone behave, you aren't watching very closely.

reitanqild 12y ago
There's more to it than that. 1. The words were never meant for her 2. She didn't contact him, maybe she misheard? 3. She was, in fact, way more powerful than him (privilege) 4. She has a history of being a professional victim 5. -and a history of making similarly bad jokes herself, publicly
- bkirwi 12y ago
  It's an odd definition of personal privilege you have, where the privileged person suffers two years of harassment and abuse, and the person without privilege immediately returns to a lucrative career. It's also an odd definition of professional victim, where publicly being a 'victim' results in you getting booted out of the profession. I don't want to comment on the event itself here -- but I think that the aftermath, and the continued reaction to it, say a lot of sad things about the tech community.
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    > It's an odd definition of personal privilege you have, Which is most privileged: * Developer evangelist vs developer-on-the-floor * 10 000 twitter followers vs nothing > It's also an odd definition of professional victim, where publicly being a 'victim' results in you getting booted out of the profession. Why she was booted from her profession was because she misused her position, -in a way that caused significant harm to the employer.

LordHumungous 12y ago

Wait wait wait. Hacker culture is all about radical honesty and voicing your opinion without regard to hurting others feelings... Except when its a woman voicing an opinion about something she finds offensive.