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>I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where the person on the other side of the table is regularly looking at my boobs. What am i supposed to do abou

by ierio 12y ago

>I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where the person on the other side of the table is regularly looking at my boobs. What am i supposed to do about that This is just blatant non-sense. I am immigrant working in US. I can't tell you how many times women have brushed my arms or tried to grab my ass. I am male and have english accent. What are people supposed to do when you are sitting at exact opposite side ? Close the eyes ? Even if you are directly looking into women's eyes she could be feel that you are looking at her boobs. Its just her own insecurities speaking out. I would not hire such flamboyant bitch. Also, mind you with diversity comes time to adjust. You can't mix people from all over the world ( India, China, UK,Australia, Mexicans ) and expect them to follow your culture right away. People from India and China ( including Taiwan ) are very hardcore. Many times I have seen they refuse to mix and adjust according to US culture. When I was working in boston for big software company , which also had Indian and Chinese folks, these people would get coffee within their own group and refuse to invite/mix with others. Many of my friends experienced similar thing. I believe parent commenter is just non-sense believing everything said to him. I would certainly steer away from such person being my manager. One of the managers responsibility is to listen to everything and make good judgement call which he clearly fails to demonstrate.

JohnBooty 12y ago
If you received unwanted physical or sexual behavior, that is a real problem and I am genuinely sorry that you had to deal with that. A long time ago I received some pretty serious harassment from a female coworker. It happens to men too, and it is not fun at all. But the fact that it also happens to men doesn't mean that you can just dismiss womens' problems like that. Unless you are living in a culture where men and women are exactly equal, then you need to realize that men and women experience these things differently.
Jemaclus 12y ago
I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. Firstly, that she's a flamboyant bitch (she's not -- in fact, she has never even mentioned this kind of thing until I asked her). Furthermore, by assuming she's a "flamboyant bitch" at all, you've demonstrated that you're part of the problem and blaming the victim. Can't you see that? Second, you're making the assumption that if you're sitting directly across from a woman, you have to either look at her or keep your eyes closed. There are a million other things in the room you can look at that don't involve her breasts. There's a fine line between staring intently at her eyes and making casual eye contact while carrying on a conversation. I'm capable of not staring at her breasts and making women feel comfortable around me -- and so are millions of other men. It's not hard, but it is something we men should be aware of. Third, you're right. I do believe her when she says that people stare at her breasts (hell, I've checked them out myself) and that it makes her uncomfortable when she notices. I don't see any reason to disbelieve her. You say that women have brushed your arms and grabbed your ass -- why should I not take you at your word? It seems like something that could totally happen. How would you feel if I said to you "Ha, no woman has ever grabbed your ass. Quit being a drama queen"? That's effectively what you just said about my coworker. I don't have any evidence that shows she's a liar -- and neither do you, by the way -- but I have plenty of evidence that what she says is true from her perspective. You're right about another thing: my responsibility as a manager is to listen to everything and make good judgment calls. I'm not clear on where you think I'm making poor judgment calls. I have literally done nothing but listen to my coworker's thoughts (which I assume falls under the definition of "everything") and have asked for opinions regarding her statement. I haven't taken any action, I haven't fired anyone, I haven't accused anyone of improper behavior. Where is my poor judgment? Nowhere. I haven't made any poor judgments. If anything, actually stopping to think about her comment and the ramifications is a sign of progress, that the status quo can be improved. I'm sorry you've experienced sexual harassment. It's a terrible thing to feel uncomfortable going to your work. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I owe it to myself and to my team to consider what I might do if it happened to me. Don't you agree? Or do you think I should just sweep it under the rug and ignore it? P.S. I said nothing about culture and diversity or the race/ethnicity of my friend. I'm not sure where that came from. But I don't disagree with you. It's hard to mix cultures. But surely we can try to ensure that everyone is on their best behavior, yes?
dang 12y ago
> This is just blatant non-sense. This violates the HN guidelines. Telling someone that their factual recounting of their own experience is "blatant non-sense" is a serious breach of civility, which is the #1 rule people are required to abide by here.

by ierio 12y ago

JohnBooty 12y ago

If you received unwanted physical or sexual behavior, that is a real problem and I am genuinely sorry that you had to deal with that. A long time ago I received some pretty serious harassment from a female coworker. It happens to men too, and it is not fun at all. But the fact that it also happens to men doesn't mean that you can just dismiss womens' problems like that. Unless you are living in a culture where men and women are exactly equal, then you need to realize that men and women experience these things differently.

Jemaclus 12y ago

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. Firstly, that she's a flamboyant bitch (she's not -- in fact, she has never even mentioned this kind of thing until I asked her). Furthermore, by assuming she's a "flamboyant bitch" at all, you've demonstrated that you're part of the problem and blaming the victim. Can't you see that? Second, you're making the assumption that if you're sitting directly across from a woman, you have to either look at her or keep your eyes closed. There are a million other things in the room you can look at that don't involve her breasts. There's a fine line between staring intently at her eyes and making casual eye contact while carrying on a conversation. I'm capable of not staring at her breasts and making women feel comfortable around me -- and so are millions of other men. It's not hard, but it is something we men should be aware of. Third, you're right. I do believe her when she says that people stare at her breasts (hell, I've checked them out myself) and that it makes her uncomfortable when she notices. I don't see any reason to disbelieve her. You say that women have brushed your arms and grabbed your ass -- why should I not take you at your word? It seems like something that could totally happen. How would you feel if I said to you "Ha, no woman has ever grabbed your ass. Quit being a drama queen"? That's effectively what you just said about my coworker. I don't have any evidence that shows she's a liar -- and neither do you, by the way -- but I have plenty of evidence that what she says is true from her perspective. You're right about another thing: my responsibility as a manager is to listen to everything and make good judgment calls. I'm not clear on where you think I'm making poor judgment calls. I have literally done nothing but listen to my coworker's thoughts (which I assume falls under the definition of "everything") and have asked for opinions regarding her statement. I haven't taken any action, I haven't fired anyone, I haven't accused anyone of improper behavior. Where is my poor judgment? Nowhere. I haven't made any poor judgments. If anything, actually stopping to think about her comment and the ramifications is a sign of progress, that the status quo can be improved. I'm sorry you've experienced sexual harassment. It's a terrible thing to feel uncomfortable going to your work. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I owe it to myself and to my team to consider what I might do if it happened to me. Don't you agree? Or do you think I should just sweep it under the rug and ignore it? P.S. I said nothing about culture and diversity or the race/ethnicity of my friend. I'm not sure where that came from. But I don't disagree with you. It's hard to mix cultures. But surely we can try to ensure that everyone is on their best behavior, yes?

dang 12y ago

> This is just blatant non-sense. This violates the HN guidelines. Telling someone that their factual recounting of their own experience is "blatant non-sense" is a serious breach of civility, which is the #1 rule people are required to abide by here.