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I hate to post the "I agree" comment, but this article is too valuable in my opinion to just leave with no comment so here are a couple of quotes that put some
by jdbernard 12y ago
I hate to post the "I agree" comment, but this article is too valuable in my opinion to just leave with no comment so here are a couple of quotes that put some of my feelings into words very accurately:
Both groups [geek feminists and brogrammers] are latecomers barging in on a cultural space that was once a respite for us, and we don’t appreciate either group bringing its cultural conflicts into our space in a way that demands we choose one side or the other. That’s a false dichotomy, and false dichotomies make us want to tear our hair out.
I’m not claiming that’s entirely rational, because fear isn’t rational, but it sure does explain the response to being told that our culture is broken and must be adapted to accommodate the very people who rallied it into being by shunning us from theirs.
Trying to convince hacker culture to change its norms by appealing to progressive values alone won’t work. You’re going to have to appeal to hacker values, and nobody’s done that yet.
leading with “there are more of us than there are of you, so you have to change to accommodate us” is, hands down, the best way to ensure that your carefully constructed appeal will fall on deaf ears.
We made these communities to escape the people that tried to force their norms and values on us, who tried to pass judgement on us and ostracise us because of our differences. So it should be obvious why we circle the wagons when someone comes with accusations, demanding access to our group and insinuating that our reluctance to accept them is due to something wrong with us, something bad that we have done. They are acting exactly like the kind of people we're trying to keep out. I'm not saying we're perfect and have no biases of our own, but trying to force your way via moral or social might is not going to work.
- waterlesscloud 12y agoAnother good passage - Humans are social animals, and part of what makes a social species social is that its members place a high priority on signaling their commitment to other members of their species. Weirdoes’ priorities are different; our primary commitment is to an idea or a project or a field of inquiry. Species-membership commitment doesn’t just take a back seat, it’s in the trunk with a bag over its head.
- Kalium 12y agoUnfortunately, it seems that respecting other subcultures and believing you have the one true just culture are incompatible beliefs.
- jdbernard 12y agoI don't think most hackers believe they have the one true culture. I think it's more like, this is the culture we chose. Other cultures are great. They aren't for me, but more power to them. Just please don't come and try and change hacker culture just because we're popular now.
- Kalium 12y agoI wasn't referring to hackers as believing we have the one true just culture.
- Terr_ 12y ago"Respecting" a belief or believer is not the same thing as "agreeing" with that belief, even if they do tend to correlate.
- Kalium 12y agoVery true! That said, I tend to think that respecting a culture means understanding that it exists and not attempting to invade its spaces.