4 ms·

Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones up to eight hours a day. Headph

by joesmo 12y ago

Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones up to eight hours a day. Headphones are generally not recommended to be used more than an hour a day and even then, they need to be at a low volume, something that's impossible in the open-office plans I've seen/worked in. "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day" (http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/general-health/Pages/headphone-safety.aspx http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...).

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
If you get big cans instead of little bitty earbuds you can keep the volume down lower, not to mention noise cancellers. (I'm partial to sennheiser, but just get something nice)
- bduerst 12y ago
  I have big ears, but the Audio Technica ATH-A900 fit comfortable around the ear. I would definitely recommend. http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A900X-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B005TCZIQA/ http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A900X-Monitor-Headp...
johnchristopher 12y ago
> Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones Oh, it has been mentioned. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078314 I remember :). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078026 http://theheadphonesrule.com/ http://theheadphonesrule.com/
rnovak 12y ago
Oh man, I'm going to be screwed by the time I hit 30, at 27 I've been listening to music about 7+ hours (realistically) a day, at about 40-50% volume, for the last 9 years. Maybe someone will invent a bionic ear?!?
- _abattoir 12y ago
  It's not too far off. We're about five years away from standard stem cell treatments to regrow parts like eardrums and corneas.
lowboy 12y ago
IIRC, it's just the dBs/time and not headphones specifically that contribute to hearing loss. If your ear drums are getting 100 dBs from speakers or 100 dBs from headphones, it should cause the same amount of damage over the same time. Also "60% of maximum volume" is a poor metric due to differences in headphone impedance and sensitivity.
- kazinator 12y ago
  60% of maximum volume is a poor metric due to a complete ignorance of decibels, power and how the two are related together. If 60% means 0.6 times some maximum number of decibels, then this is not scale invariant. For instance 60 dB versus a maximum of 100 dB ("60%") is not the same power ratio as 30 dB versus 50 dB (also "60%"). In the dB scale, we subtract to show ratios; we don't indicate ratios between decibels. For instance, 10% of the maximum volume (in terms of power) means 10 dB below. If 60% just means 60% of the volume position between 0 and MAX, that is also hokey because it depends on the actual taper curve. Analog volume pots use various ad-hoc "audio taper" curves. Digital volumes tend to be better: the steps based on dB increments. The increments are not always the same across the volume control range. The maximum volume varies between amplifiers and headphones. What does that even mean? Maximum level at what percentage THD? Many sound systems can go a notch louder, if you accept greater distortion, and some people listen to rock that way. A sensible starting guideline might be, say, "at least 20 dB below the maximum output intensity which 'typical' headphones can reproduce without distortion". That is still hokey in a number of ways, an important one of which is that the user usually has no interface for dialing in a 20 dB drop; such markings are only found on the controls of some pro audio gear.
elithrar 12y ago
> "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day" (http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea... http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...). Out of curiosity, is there a peer-reviewed study on this? Moderation sounds good, but I'd like to understand at what intensity (dB) for what period could potentially constitute hearing loss. The 60% cited in that link seems to be based on a 120dB max (so: 72dB), which is a fair bit higher than most consumer devices (with consumer headphone impedance levels). Some cursory research shows that it's a bit closer to 103 - 109dB for an iPhone (and similar devices), which puts it around 63dB. For context, I use canalphones for the isolation, and so I can keep the output down. I also understand that these aren't viable and/or comfortable for everyone. TL;DR: How long can someone sustain ~63dB without potential hearing damage?
- banjomonster 12y ago
  85-90dB seems to be the where the concerns for hearing damage start, if sustained for 8+ hours. Some useful (official) tables and charts: https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/new_noise/images/fig3.gif https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/new_noise/images/fig3.gif And this has a nice listing of levels/safe listening times: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/ http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-cente...

by joesmo 12y ago

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

If you get big cans instead of little bitty earbuds you can keep the volume down lower, not to mention noise cancellers. (I'm partial to sennheiser, but just get something nice)

bduerst 12y ago
I have big ears, but the Audio Technica ATH-A900 fit comfortable around the ear. I would definitely recommend. http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A900X-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B005TCZIQA/ http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A900X-Monitor-Headp...

johnchristopher 12y ago

> Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones Oh, it has been mentioned. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078314 I remember :). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5078026 http://theheadphonesrule.com/ http://theheadphonesrule.com/

rnovak 12y ago

Oh man, I'm going to be screwed by the time I hit 30, at 27 I've been listening to music about 7+ hours (realistically) a day, at about 40-50% volume, for the last 9 years. Maybe someone will invent a bionic ear?!?

_abattoir 12y ago
It's not too far off. We're about five years away from standard stem cell treatments to regrow parts like eardrums and corneas.

lowboy 12y ago

IIRC, it's just the dBs/time and not headphones specifically that contribute to hearing loss. If your ear drums are getting 100 dBs from speakers or 100 dBs from headphones, it should cause the same amount of damage over the same time. Also "60% of maximum volume" is a poor metric due to differences in headphone impedance and sensitivity.

kazinator 12y ago
60% of maximum volume is a poor metric due to a complete ignorance of decibels, power and how the two are related together. If 60% means 0.6 times some maximum number of decibels, then this is not scale invariant. For instance 60 dB versus a maximum of 100 dB ("60%") is not the same power ratio as 30 dB versus 50 dB (also "60%"). In the dB scale, we subtract to show ratios; we don't indicate ratios between decibels. For instance, 10% of the maximum volume (in terms of power) means 10 dB below. If 60% just means 60% of the volume position between 0 and MAX, that is also hokey because it depends on the actual taper curve. Analog volume pots use various ad-hoc "audio taper" curves. Digital volumes tend to be better: the steps based on dB increments. The increments are not always the same across the volume control range. The maximum volume varies between amplifiers and headphones. What does that even mean? Maximum level at what percentage THD? Many sound systems can go a notch louder, if you accept greater distortion, and some people listen to rock that way. A sensible starting guideline might be, say, "at least 20 dB below the maximum output intensity which 'typical' headphones can reproduce without distortion". That is still hokey in a number of ways, an important one of which is that the user usually has no interface for dialing in a 20 dB drop; such markings are only found on the controls of some pro audio gear.

elithrar 12y ago

> "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day" (http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea... http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...). Out of curiosity, is there a peer-reviewed study on this? Moderation sounds good, but I'd like to understand at what intensity (dB) for what period could potentially constitute hearing loss. The 60% cited in that link seems to be based on a 120dB max (so: 72dB), which is a fair bit higher than most consumer devices (with consumer headphone impedance levels). Some cursory research shows that it's a bit closer to 103 - 109dB for an iPhone (and similar devices), which puts it around 63dB. For context, I use canalphones for the isolation, and so I can keep the output down. I also understand that these aren't viable and/or comfortable for everyone. TL;DR: How long can someone sustain ~63dB without potential hearing damage?

banjomonster 12y ago
85-90dB seems to be the where the concerns for hearing damage start, if sustained for 8+ hours. Some useful (official) tables and charts: https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/new_noise/images/fig3.gif https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/new_noise/images/fig3.gif And this has a nice listing of levels/safe listening times: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/ http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-cente...