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Look at the grassroots, bipartisan, loud and successful cry from the public not to enter Syria. How many months did that work? It is true that the system must

Look at the grassroots, bipartisan, loud and successful cry from the public not to enter Syria. How many months did that work? It is true that the system must represent the people. If and when it does not - whose fault is it? It can not be the people. We don't design people. We design a system to conform to the people, to communicate with them and to represent them.

Zelphyr 12y ago
Its our fault because we put those politicians in power. Its our fault because we on the whole would rather watch sports, reality tv, play games, etc... than get involved in the running of our country. And it doesn't even take much. Can you really not spare a 5 minutes once a week to call your representatives? Think about if more people did this. Suddenly those lobbyists voices would get a lot less powerful.
- xnull6guest 12y ago
  Are not the representatives we get to choose from filtered before we can select them? Aren't the representatives beholden to those who can get them the money to run before we even get to hear that they are running? Aren't the (only two) political parties in consensus on issues in the high finance, insider trading, and foreign investment that bring their kin high rewards and imperialist neo-colonial empire building that makes this growth possible? Yes we can bother these people about allowing gay people to marry (or not, or whatever) but when can we ask them not to cause revolutions around the world (like now in Venezuela) and then intervene with bombs and 'bring Capitalistic freedom' by fixing American private investment in their resources? You can make noise about some things, but they either will not last (re Syria) or they will not listen. Other strategic objectives, international agreements and private investment come first. How are you going to immediately and suddenly alter 300 million people to spend multiple hours a week to sift through the reams of propaganda and PR (whose voices rise above political realities) to come to independent and critical political and social analysis? That's a huge lifestyle change - we can't even get 300 million people to turn off the lights when they exit rooms to save electricity. If people on the whole want to enjoy hobbies, entertainment, family and work instead of being full time politicians and investigative reporters can we snub them for that? We need a system that can work with people who are busy living their (plebeian) lives but is still able to represent their interests. Someone might say that this isn't possible - but then are they not saying that representative democracy is not possible?
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>Think about if more people did this. Suddenly those lobbyists voices would get a lot less powerful. No they wouldn't. Lobbyists represent moneyed interests. You don't. You're just one person. Seriously, you are committing two mistakes here. The first mistake is to assume that your letters and phone calls to representatives actually matter. The second mistake is to assume that your representatives have any power to stop our rogue intelligence agencies, particularly the NSA. I want to address the second one first, because it's more important. Simply put, the NSA is out of control. They have an extremely sophisticated apparatus in place that has been growing exponentially in complexity and reach since immediately after 9/11, and they have the balls to lie to the Congress about it while under oath. And there are secret courts - secret courts! - that seem to give them blanket approval with absolutely zero accountability. An organization like that cannot be stopped, not just because it's political suicide to try to stop them but also because it would genuinely cause a lot of collateral damage. But the other point is also worth addressing. The idea that writing or calling your representatives actually affects anything is an illusion. An illusion that must be maintained to keep things stable, but an illusion nonetheless. Because here's what actually happens when they get a letter from you: they skim through it and send you a canned response. That's it. Your opinion does not matter unless you have deep pockets and are an existing or potential donor. This is difficult to accept for some people but it is the reality.
  - Zelphyr 12y ago
    So we shouldn't try? Just give up? Sorry. I'm not defeatist enough to do that.
    - xnull7guest 12y ago
      No, we shouldn't give up. But the actions you take to get reform change with your understanding of the situation and its barriers. Buying into the current status quo will bring more of the same. That's not to say the only other options are violent. As usual there are options between extremes: radical reform and reevaluation. The first step to this is to speak openly about barriers and the way that things are; about what problems we face and what policies we want and what kind of country we want to be. If you call your representatives once a week, it's not going to hurt so I encourage you to do so. It's just not necessarily the solution.

Zelphyr 12y ago

Its our fault because we put those politicians in power. Its our fault because we on the whole would rather watch sports, reality tv, play games, etc... than get involved in the running of our country. And it doesn't even take much. Can you really not spare a 5 minutes once a week to call your representatives? Think about if more people did this. Suddenly those lobbyists voices would get a lot less powerful.

xnull6guest 12y ago
Are not the representatives we get to choose from filtered before we can select them? Aren't the representatives beholden to those who can get them the money to run before we even get to hear that they are running? Aren't the (only two) political parties in consensus on issues in the high finance, insider trading, and foreign investment that bring their kin high rewards and imperialist neo-colonial empire building that makes this growth possible? Yes we can bother these people about allowing gay people to marry (or not, or whatever) but when can we ask them not to cause revolutions around the world (like now in Venezuela) and then intervene with bombs and 'bring Capitalistic freedom' by fixing American private investment in their resources? You can make noise about some things, but they either will not last (re Syria) or they will not listen. Other strategic objectives, international agreements and private investment come first. How are you going to immediately and suddenly alter 300 million people to spend multiple hours a week to sift through the reams of propaganda and PR (whose voices rise above political realities) to come to independent and critical political and social analysis? That's a huge lifestyle change - we can't even get 300 million people to turn off the lights when they exit rooms to save electricity. If people on the whole want to enjoy hobbies, entertainment, family and work instead of being full time politicians and investigative reporters can we snub them for that? We need a system that can work with people who are busy living their (plebeian) lives but is still able to represent their interests. Someone might say that this isn't possible - but then are they not saying that representative democracy is not possible?
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>Think about if more people did this. Suddenly those lobbyists voices would get a lot less powerful. No they wouldn't. Lobbyists represent moneyed interests. You don't. You're just one person. Seriously, you are committing two mistakes here. The first mistake is to assume that your letters and phone calls to representatives actually matter. The second mistake is to assume that your representatives have any power to stop our rogue intelligence agencies, particularly the NSA. I want to address the second one first, because it's more important. Simply put, the NSA is out of control. They have an extremely sophisticated apparatus in place that has been growing exponentially in complexity and reach since immediately after 9/11, and they have the balls to lie to the Congress about it while under oath. And there are secret courts - secret courts! - that seem to give them blanket approval with absolutely zero accountability. An organization like that cannot be stopped, not just because it's political suicide to try to stop them but also because it would genuinely cause a lot of collateral damage. But the other point is also worth addressing. The idea that writing or calling your representatives actually affects anything is an illusion. An illusion that must be maintained to keep things stable, but an illusion nonetheless. Because here's what actually happens when they get a letter from you: they skim through it and send you a canned response. That's it. Your opinion does not matter unless you have deep pockets and are an existing or potential donor. This is difficult to accept for some people but it is the reality.
- Zelphyr 12y ago
  So we shouldn't try? Just give up? Sorry. I'm not defeatist enough to do that.
  - xnull7guest 12y ago
    No, we shouldn't give up. But the actions you take to get reform change with your understanding of the situation and its barriers. Buying into the current status quo will bring more of the same. That's not to say the only other options are violent. As usual there are options between extremes: radical reform and reevaluation. The first step to this is to speak openly about barriers and the way that things are; about what problems we face and what policies we want and what kind of country we want to be. If you call your representatives once a week, it's not going to hurt so I encourage you to do so. It's just not necessarily the solution.