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Better qualified to make statements like what? She hasn't said anything about the document except to pretend to misread part of it, and call it bad grammar. The

by philh 12y ago

Better qualified to make statements like what? She hasn't said anything about the document except to pretend to misread part of it, and call it bad grammar. The rest is insulting Linus and the kernel devteam. The twitter thread does contain some actual criticisms: "it’s uselessly vague, blames the victims of abuse rather than the perpetrators, and lays out no actual process for violations"; "the 1st graf def sets up some apologist precedents" - but Hypatia is not the one making them. (I don't think I agree with these criticisms, but they're better than insults.) I'm sure she has behaved admirably in other situations. In this situation, she is not behaving admirably. She is not communicating well through difficult times. I don't buy the "not much space" argument, because she's not even trying to be constructive in the 140 characters that she has. (I'm not saying she's morally obligated to provide constructive criticism, I'm saying that if she wanted to do so, she could be a lot more constructive than this.) I'm not saying anything about Hypatia in general. Maybe she's having a bad day. If I encounter her in another situation, I'll try not to judge her based on this incident. The fact remains that in this particular twitter thread, she is behaving poorly.

hluska 12y ago
Perhaps. And, so you know, again I'm sorry for arguing with you like this. My argument approaches non sequitur because my only point is that we should listen because I respect her. Yet seriously, why would you respect me or give an iota of a crap about something that happened to me???? I deeply apologize and swear I am not trying to offend you or be disrespectful. The problem with disagreeing with a code like this is that arguments stink until you put them into practice. Saying a code is too vague is like saying that a design needs to pop - in the end, it means nothing until it is accompanied by an "I would have written it like this" statement with an example.
- philh 12y ago
  I don't think you have anything to apologize for. You haven't said anything that comes close to being offensive or disrespectful, as far as I can tell.
  - washadjeffmad 12y ago
    It's exactly that sort of insensitivity that makes the Open Source culture so toxic. You don't even preemptively apologize for comments that might be offensive in a way that you didn't intend because of your innate privilege. Take yourself down a few pegs and try to imagine what the world is like for everyone else who didn't have the world handed to them. Oh wait, that was an ill reasoned, assumptive, and unhelpful response made without basis or provocation. Besides not being a part of your conversation, I had no right to scold you, especially not for any of my personal beliefs, and I won't be dismissive, sarcastic, dig my heels in, or behave like a demagogue just to bolster my platform if you respond. Totes my mistake, carry on.
calibraxis 12y ago
That's not how Twitter works. If you're acquainted with her explanations and what she's linked to, this tweet's background should be clear. (Or at least you know where to dig more deeply.) Looking for a nuanced argument in this particular tweet in isolation is disingenuous. When I want to know what someone means, I investigate deeper.
- philh 12y ago
  If you've learned something interesting by investigating deeper, feel free to share. I promise I'm not being deliberately disingenuous, but I'm honestly not sure what you think I've done wrong. I've read the article she linked about how Linus isn't a nice guy. I've read the entire thread. I've now looked at her main feed, outside of the thread. I maintain that she is not criticizing the document, she's insulting the people involved. Do you think that I should be elaborating on the particular forms of insults that she's using? It doesn't seem relevant to me that her insults take the form of accusations of abuse, but that's honestly the only thing I can think of, that you might think I'm being dishonest about.

by philh 12y ago

hluska 12y ago

Perhaps. And, so you know, again I'm sorry for arguing with you like this. My argument approaches non sequitur because my only point is that we should listen because I respect her. Yet seriously, why would you respect me or give an iota of a crap about something that happened to me???? I deeply apologize and swear I am not trying to offend you or be disrespectful. The problem with disagreeing with a code like this is that arguments stink until you put them into practice. Saying a code is too vague is like saying that a design needs to pop - in the end, it means nothing until it is accompanied by an "I would have written it like this" statement with an example.

philh 12y ago
I don't think you have anything to apologize for. You haven't said anything that comes close to being offensive or disrespectful, as far as I can tell.
- washadjeffmad 12y ago
  It's exactly that sort of insensitivity that makes the Open Source culture so toxic. You don't even preemptively apologize for comments that might be offensive in a way that you didn't intend because of your innate privilege. Take yourself down a few pegs and try to imagine what the world is like for everyone else who didn't have the world handed to them. Oh wait, that was an ill reasoned, assumptive, and unhelpful response made without basis or provocation. Besides not being a part of your conversation, I had no right to scold you, especially not for any of my personal beliefs, and I won't be dismissive, sarcastic, dig my heels in, or behave like a demagogue just to bolster my platform if you respond. Totes my mistake, carry on.

calibraxis 12y ago

That's not how Twitter works. If you're acquainted with her explanations and what she's linked to, this tweet's background should be clear. (Or at least you know where to dig more deeply.) Looking for a nuanced argument in this particular tweet in isolation is disingenuous. When I want to know what someone means, I investigate deeper.

philh 12y ago
If you've learned something interesting by investigating deeper, feel free to share. I promise I'm not being deliberately disingenuous, but I'm honestly not sure what you think I've done wrong. I've read the article she linked about how Linus isn't a nice guy. I've read the entire thread. I've now looked at her main feed, outside of the thread. I maintain that she is not criticizing the document, she's insulting the people involved. Do you think that I should be elaborating on the particular forms of insults that she's using? It doesn't seem relevant to me that her insults take the form of accusations of abuse, but that's honestly the only thing I can think of, that you might think I'm being dishonest about.