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You're probably right. Big businesses like McDonald's and Hilton and Hertz could never be overcome by the little guy. On a completely unrelated note, if you ev

You're probably right. Big businesses like McDonald's and Hilton and Hertz could never be overcome by the little guy. On a completely unrelated note, if you ever find yourself in North East Ohio, I have some nice apartments you can stay at that are much cheaper than the local hotels: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 The airports are a bit of hike to here, though, so you may want to use Uber.

moe 12y ago
could never be overcome by the little guy [...] airbnb [...] Uber Yep. These two companies, valued at $13B and $40B respectively, employing 800 and 2000 people respectively, are the definition of "little guy". It doesn't get more underdog than that. /s
- padobson 12y ago
  Ugh. I'm the little guy. Airbnb and Uber are the automation that enables my apartments to compete with the Holiday Inn and Marriott less than a mile away.
  - moe 12y ago
    I'm the little guy. Just the average 'little guy' with 3 spare apartments... I'd wager the guess most $8/hr burger flippers (or $12/hr Uber drivers) might disagree with your self-assessment.
    - padobson 12y ago
      Well I was making $9/hr as a telemarketer 5 years ago. If you want to discuss via email, I'd be happy to explain how I went from being a little guy to a marginally bigger little guy. In the end, I'm simply advocating for the decisions that got me from there to here.
  - sudioStudio64 12y ago
    Isn't Uber's value really just that they are skirting the negotiated system that taxi drivers have built in their respective cities over the years. I know that no one likes Taxis, but seriously, aren't they just another form of regulatory arbitrage?
- Tinyyy 12y ago
  Well then by your definition, nobody can be ‘overcome by the little guy’, because by the time the little guy is considered to have overcame the big guy, he would not - by definition - be that small anymore.
  - moe 12y ago
    Well then by your definition, nobody can be ‘overcome by the little guy’ That was not my point, the big guy can of course always be overcome. It's just not a very interesting case to debate because only 0.000001% of our burger flippers will ever get that lucky. My point was that most of his praised "automation and globalization" actually works against the remaining 99.99999% of burger flippers. These trends remove the very inefficiencies from markets that previously gave breathing room to independent actors. You don't realistically buy a grill anymore, you join a franchise, on the terms of a "big guy".
    - padobson 12y ago
      It's wrong to assume that the only result of taking an entrepreneurial risk is transcendent wealth 1/1,000,000 of the time or financial catastrophe the other 999,999.
mrrrgn 12y ago
I think the point you're attempting to make, is that the people who let out their apartments via AirBnB and drive for Uber are entrepreneurs. This is a valid perspective, and can be argued well. My view is a little different however. It seems to me, that the people who drive for Uber or let out their homes/apartments on AirBnB have no control over their destinies. If they are banned from the platform, their "business" is over. What Uber and AirBnB have really achieved, is to replace management with an API: allocating work, evaluating performance, and firing people in automated fashion. Those who utilize these platforms are something like contractors (though with less legal footing); not small business owners. If this trend continues to the extreme, perhaps by 2050 most of the workforce will be managed by software. Imagine it, a nation of mechanical turks and task rabbits.
- padobson 12y ago
  Excellent points. Those who utilize these platforms are something like contractors (though with less legal footing); not small business owners. I don't differentiate between a small business owner and a contractor. When exchanging labor for money (which everyone does in one way or another), a savvy laborer will take on enough extra burden to maximize their share of the profit. Yes, AirBnb and Uber have replaced management with an API, but so have ZipCar and VRBO and FlipKey and Relay Rides. This gives the laborer an unprecedented level of choice, which forces all of the parties involved to compete on, among other things, price. This competition drives up the profits for the laborer. A nation of mechanical turks and task rabbits may not be a bad thing at all. Remember, labor exploitation occurs in environments when the owner of the means of production keeps an inordinate share of the profit. The APIs don't own the means of production, they're simply enabling people to turn assets they already have into the means of production. This effectively mobilizes a nation of entrepreneurs to capture markets they previously had no way to capture.
  - Spooky23 12y ago
    Huh? Your definition of exploitation is ridiculously narrow. Mechanical turks and task rabbits are tenant farmers. The actual asset that they need to own and maintain isn't a means of production for the landlord, it's just another attribute to exploit. The landlord controls the work assignments and because the API breaks work into tiny atomic units, the tenant is stuck trying to gobble up whatever task is available. There's no competitive force to drive up compensation... it's a race to the bottom, because the workers lose all of the advantages they have as employees. (ie. hiring an FTE is high friction) This trend isn't mobilizing a nation of entrepreneurs, it's bringing back the 19th century trend of day labor for the lower classes -- except they don't even get a commitment to a day's pay!

moe 12y ago

could never be overcome by the little guy [...] airbnb [...] Uber Yep. These two companies, valued at $13B and $40B respectively, employing 800 and 2000 people respectively, are the definition of "little guy". It doesn't get more underdog than that. /s

padobson 12y ago
Ugh. I'm the little guy. Airbnb and Uber are the automation that enables my apartments to compete with the Holiday Inn and Marriott less than a mile away.
- moe 12y ago
  I'm the little guy. Just the average 'little guy' with 3 spare apartments... I'd wager the guess most $8/hr burger flippers (or $12/hr Uber drivers) might disagree with your self-assessment.
  - padobson 12y ago
    Well I was making $9/hr as a telemarketer 5 years ago. If you want to discuss via email, I'd be happy to explain how I went from being a little guy to a marginally bigger little guy. In the end, I'm simply advocating for the decisions that got me from there to here.
- sudioStudio64 12y ago
  Isn't Uber's value really just that they are skirting the negotiated system that taxi drivers have built in their respective cities over the years. I know that no one likes Taxis, but seriously, aren't they just another form of regulatory arbitrage?
Tinyyy 12y ago
Well then by your definition, nobody can be ‘overcome by the little guy’, because by the time the little guy is considered to have overcame the big guy, he would not - by definition - be that small anymore.
- moe 12y ago
  Well then by your definition, nobody can be ‘overcome by the little guy’ That was not my point, the big guy can of course always be overcome. It's just not a very interesting case to debate because only 0.000001% of our burger flippers will ever get that lucky. My point was that most of his praised "automation and globalization" actually works against the remaining 99.99999% of burger flippers. These trends remove the very inefficiencies from markets that previously gave breathing room to independent actors. You don't realistically buy a grill anymore, you join a franchise, on the terms of a "big guy".
  - padobson 12y ago
    It's wrong to assume that the only result of taking an entrepreneurial risk is transcendent wealth 1/1,000,000 of the time or financial catastrophe the other 999,999.

mrrrgn 12y ago

I think the point you're attempting to make, is that the people who let out their apartments via AirBnB and drive for Uber are entrepreneurs. This is a valid perspective, and can be argued well. My view is a little different however. It seems to me, that the people who drive for Uber or let out their homes/apartments on AirBnB have no control over their destinies. If they are banned from the platform, their "business" is over. What Uber and AirBnB have really achieved, is to replace management with an API: allocating work, evaluating performance, and firing people in automated fashion. Those who utilize these platforms are something like contractors (though with less legal footing); not small business owners. If this trend continues to the extreme, perhaps by 2050 most of the workforce will be managed by software. Imagine it, a nation of mechanical turks and task rabbits.

padobson 12y ago
Excellent points. Those who utilize these platforms are something like contractors (though with less legal footing); not small business owners. I don't differentiate between a small business owner and a contractor. When exchanging labor for money (which everyone does in one way or another), a savvy laborer will take on enough extra burden to maximize their share of the profit. Yes, AirBnb and Uber have replaced management with an API, but so have ZipCar and VRBO and FlipKey and Relay Rides. This gives the laborer an unprecedented level of choice, which forces all of the parties involved to compete on, among other things, price. This competition drives up the profits for the laborer. A nation of mechanical turks and task rabbits may not be a bad thing at all. Remember, labor exploitation occurs in environments when the owner of the means of production keeps an inordinate share of the profit. The APIs don't own the means of production, they're simply enabling people to turn assets they already have into the means of production. This effectively mobilizes a nation of entrepreneurs to capture markets they previously had no way to capture.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  Huh? Your definition of exploitation is ridiculously narrow. Mechanical turks and task rabbits are tenant farmers. The actual asset that they need to own and maintain isn't a means of production for the landlord, it's just another attribute to exploit. The landlord controls the work assignments and because the API breaks work into tiny atomic units, the tenant is stuck trying to gobble up whatever task is available. There's no competitive force to drive up compensation... it's a race to the bottom, because the workers lose all of the advantages they have as employees. (ie. hiring an FTE is high friction) This trend isn't mobilizing a nation of entrepreneurs, it's bringing back the 19th century trend of day labor for the lower classes -- except they don't even get a commitment to a day's pay!