6 ms·

A person flipping burgers for $8/hr could buy a grill and 5x their income and easily run the administrative part of their new venture from a smart phone. Umm.

by moe 12y ago

A person flipping burgers for $8/hr could buy a grill and 5x their income and easily run the administrative part of their new venture from a smart phone. Umm. Yes. All those stupid burger flippers, why don't they just buy grills... Oh, maybe it's because McDonalds can leverage automation and globalization a lot better than your entrepreneurial burger flipper. There's a tiny bit more to a Burger venue than buying a grill. "Running the administrative part from your smartphone" doesn't exactly tip the scale.

danuker 12y ago
Indeed, but also, McDonalds has teams of lawyers and clerks to deal with complicated food regulation. The very same regulation encouraged by their lobbying: https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000373&year=2014 https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00000037...
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  Yeah, if it wasn't for McDonalds and its awful lobbying, I'd be free to get e. coli from any entrepreneurial burger-griller who was somehow well-recommended on Yelp! (Come on. I like local and independent restaurants, but suggesting that literally every person should own a fully independent business, even burger flippers, is just plain silly.)
  - padobson 12y ago
    I'd like to see a higher percentage of the work force taking the skills they already have, and seeking the profits themselves instead of sharing them with an employer. When a person leaves the workforce and becomes an entrepreneur who is instead drawing on the workforce to run their business, then they are benefiting the labor market from both the supply and demand sides. There's probably a tipping point that when enough people in an economy become entrepreneurs that prices for labor of all kinds rise on their own.
padobson 12y ago
You're probably right. Big businesses like McDonald's and Hilton and Hertz could never be overcome by the little guy. On a completely unrelated note, if you ever find yourself in North East Ohio, I have some nice apartments you can stay at that are much cheaper than the local hotels: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 The airports are a bit of hike to here, though, so you may want to use Uber.
- moe 12y ago
  could never be overcome by the little guy [...] airbnb [...] Uber Yep. These two companies, valued at $13B and $40B respectively, employing 800 and 2000 people respectively, are the definition of "little guy". It doesn't get more underdog than that. /s
  - padobson 12y ago
    Ugh. I'm the little guy. Airbnb and Uber are the automation that enables my apartments to compete with the Holiday Inn and Marriott less than a mile away.
    - moe 12y ago
      I'm the little guy. Just the average 'little guy' with 3 spare apartments... I'd wager the guess most $8/hr burger flippers (or $12/hr Uber drivers) might disagree with your self-assessment.
      - padobson 12y ago
        Well I was making $9/hr as a telemarketer 5 years ago. If you want to discuss via email, I'd be happy to explain how I went from being a little guy to a marginally bigger little guy. In the end, I'm simply advocating for the decisions that got me from there to here.
    - sudioStudio64 12y ago
      Isn't Uber's value really just that they are skirting the negotiated system that taxi drivers have built in their respective cities over the years. I know that no one likes Taxis, but seriously, aren't they just another form of regulatory arbitrage?
cauterized 12y ago
Not to mention that at $8/hr it's difficult to accumulate the capital necessary to buy a grill and perishable supplies, or to get a loan for the capital. And how successful is that business going to be competing against the McDonald'ses (how do you pluralize "McDonald's"?) of the world AND all the other burger flippers' grilling businesses without name recognition or a marketing budget?
- padobson 12y ago
  Access to capital is certainly another part of the equation that would have to be solved to build an economy around entrepreneurship. Would it be so terrible to give people the option between starting a business after high school and going to college? Would you rather a bad student default on their student loans or a bad entrepreneur default on their business loans? Then again, the market may be providing a solution to this capital problem. Have you checked your mail lately? I get a letter everyday from a credit card company offering 12-24 months without interest. That's more than enough time to start a small business. It may be subsidized by the financially illiterate, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
  - cauterized 12y ago
    If you're financing based on credit card rather than savings or investment, that had better be a low-risk business, because once the interest-free period runs out you're going to be royally screwed if your business fails (9 out of 10) or has low margins.

by moe 12y ago

danuker 12y ago

Indeed, but also, McDonalds has teams of lawyers and clerks to deal with complicated food regulation. The very same regulation encouraged by their lobbying: https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000373&year=2014 https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00000037...

eli_gottlieb 12y ago
Yeah, if it wasn't for McDonalds and its awful lobbying, I'd be free to get e. coli from any entrepreneurial burger-griller who was somehow well-recommended on Yelp! (Come on. I like local and independent restaurants, but suggesting that literally every person should own a fully independent business, even burger flippers, is just plain silly.)
- padobson 12y ago
  I'd like to see a higher percentage of the work force taking the skills they already have, and seeking the profits themselves instead of sharing them with an employer. When a person leaves the workforce and becomes an entrepreneur who is instead drawing on the workforce to run their business, then they are benefiting the labor market from both the supply and demand sides. There's probably a tipping point that when enough people in an economy become entrepreneurs that prices for labor of all kinds rise on their own.

padobson 12y ago

You're probably right. Big businesses like McDonald's and Hilton and Hertz could never be overcome by the little guy. On a completely unrelated note, if you ever find yourself in North East Ohio, I have some nice apartments you can stay at that are much cheaper than the local hotels: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2235649 The airports are a bit of hike to here, though, so you may want to use Uber.

moe 12y ago
could never be overcome by the little guy [...] airbnb [...] Uber Yep. These two companies, valued at $13B and $40B respectively, employing 800 and 2000 people respectively, are the definition of "little guy". It doesn't get more underdog than that. /s
- padobson 12y ago
  Ugh. I'm the little guy. Airbnb and Uber are the automation that enables my apartments to compete with the Holiday Inn and Marriott less than a mile away.
  - moe 12y ago
    I'm the little guy. Just the average 'little guy' with 3 spare apartments... I'd wager the guess most $8/hr burger flippers (or $12/hr Uber drivers) might disagree with your self-assessment.
    - padobson 12y ago
      Well I was making $9/hr as a telemarketer 5 years ago. If you want to discuss via email, I'd be happy to explain how I went from being a little guy to a marginally bigger little guy. In the end, I'm simply advocating for the decisions that got me from there to here.
  - sudioStudio64 12y ago
    Isn't Uber's value really just that they are skirting the negotiated system that taxi drivers have built in their respective cities over the years. I know that no one likes Taxis, but seriously, aren't they just another form of regulatory arbitrage?

cauterized 12y ago

Not to mention that at $8/hr it's difficult to accumulate the capital necessary to buy a grill and perishable supplies, or to get a loan for the capital. And how successful is that business going to be competing against the McDonald'ses (how do you pluralize "McDonald's"?) of the world AND all the other burger flippers' grilling businesses without name recognition or a marketing budget?

padobson 12y ago
Access to capital is certainly another part of the equation that would have to be solved to build an economy around entrepreneurship. Would it be so terrible to give people the option between starting a business after high school and going to college? Would you rather a bad student default on their student loans or a bad entrepreneur default on their business loans? Then again, the market may be providing a solution to this capital problem. Have you checked your mail lately? I get a letter everyday from a credit card company offering 12-24 months without interest. That's more than enough time to start a small business. It may be subsidized by the financially illiterate, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
- cauterized 12y ago
  If you're financing based on credit card rather than savings or investment, that had better be a low-risk business, because once the interest-free period runs out you're going to be royally screwed if your business fails (9 out of 10) or has low margins.