6 ms·
_usually_ is the keyword. Sometimes he wants people retroactively aborted. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495 You never kno
by Argorak 12y ago
_usually_ is the keyword. Sometimes he wants people retroactively aborted.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495
You never know when it hits you.
- raverbashing 12y agoI'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with: "This is crap" (without pointing why or how to fix it - of course with ruder words) "We're not applying this fix" (without any explanation why and the system is pretty much broken/only works for limited cases/bug waiting to happen/etc) "What are you talking about?"/patronizing behaviour (when it's crystal clear what you mean) And usually the ones with thinner skin are the ones who try to push fundamentally bad things.
- Xylakant 12y agoI'm not fine with that. He's questioning whether another human being should be allowed to live or survive. I'm puzzled how calling for someones death (retroactively or not) is even remotely defensible in this context.
- raverbashing 12y agoIt's a language construct, a figure of speech, nobody is being realistically threatened I'm puzzled by how someone can miss that, but of course this is HN and some people take everything literally.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago> but of course this is HN and some people take everything literally. I have my pet theory that getting outraged about random things like that is not genuine, but just signalling. You can see a lot of this kind of behaviour among the social justice movement.
- digi_owl 12y agoBe outraged on someone else's behalf, get attention, ???, PROFIT?
- afarrell 12y agoOne doesn't have to take something literally to feel like is hostile and aggressive.
- icebraining 12y agoIt's supposed to be aggressive. The question is whether it's unjustifiably aggressive.
- Xylakant 12y agohyperbole or not, credible threat or not - questioning other humans livelihood is unacceptable in this setting. It's overly aggressive and attacks the person behind the code. I'd rate "you're not worth living" the ultimate insult.
- raverbashing 12y agoDo you even know what a hyperbole is? You seem to lack basic reading comprehension, come from a sheltered environment, have aspergers or is just trolling
- Argorak 12y agoSERIOUSLY. INSULTING ANOTHER PERSON BY ACCUSING THEM OF HAVING A MENTAL DISORDER. You are a disgrace.
- hendriks 12y agoThough "You [...] is just trolling." is kind of funny coming from someone who's complaining about lack of "reading comprehension".
- raverbashing 12y agoGood catch, but it happens.
- dang 12y ago> You are a disgrace Not ok. Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News, even when someone else has posted something inappropriate. Especially then, in fact, since those are the moments when a civil response contributes most to the community. (There's also a bit in the HN guidelines against all caps.)
- dang 12y ago> Do you even know > You seem to lack basic reading comprehension, come from a sheltered environment, have aspergers or is just trolling This kind of comment has no place on Hacker News. I'm sure you know that. All: when you see a comment that is particularly bad for HN, please flag it by clicking its timestamp (e.g. "4 hours ago") to go to its page, then clicking "flag". We monitor these flags and take action based on them.
- scott_s 12y agoAbusive language is still abusive if even used as a figure of speech.
- Dirlewanger 12y agoBecause SJW culture (which has a sickeningly strong presence here) has convinced everyone that they have a right to be offended, and this right needs to be enforced through every nook and cranny of the Internet.
- TeMPOraL 12y agoIndeed. What the hell is with this "right to be offended" anyway? Not being easily offended is a sign of being a mature adult.
- digi_owl 12y agoThe problem in essence comes down to only dealing in absolutes. There may be a time or place for anything, and the sign of experience is to know when that time and place is. Sadly the web has made it all too easy to take something out of its context.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- davidw 12y agoIt's not to be taken literally. Still though, it seems over the top. I think part of the problem with Linus' style is that people will inevitably try and imitate him. Not many will manage the intelligence and coding skills, but pretty much everyone can be a jerk if they put their mind to it. I suppose you can say it's not his fault if people do that, but perhaps with a bit more kindness (to people, not to their bad ideas), the world would be a better place.
- vidarh 12y agoHe's not calling for someones death. He's using hyperbole to make a point. You're of course free to find that offensive, but if you think he's genuinely questioning whether or not another human being should be allowed to live or survive, you don't understand the message. EDIT: It's also a point that likely stems from longstanding frustration. The amount of userspace software that does stupid amounts of system calls because people still do not realise how expensive system calls are is astounding. My favourite high profile pet peeve with this used to be the MySQL client library (don't know if it's been fixed) that used to do an astounding number of tiny read()'s which could have been cut to a tiny fraction with some basic user-space buffering. You can often find substantial bottlenecks in applications in about 10 seconds by attaching strace and look for stupid amounts of syscalls.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y agoWhat's the minimum level of frustration that justifies this kind of thing.
- digi_owl 12y agoIt can't be measured logically (unless you want to hook everyone up with a 24/7 hormone log) as it is emotionally driven.
- scott_s 12y agoI believe that is the point GFK_of_xmaspast is making; it's done to make the person yelling to feel better, but it is counter-productive.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- scott_s 12y agoOne can recognize that he is not literally calling for someone's death, and still find it unacceptable.
- Vaskivo 12y agoBecause anything a person says in the internet (or in real life) should be taken serious and literally, and should be executed as swiftly as possible.
- Argorak 12y agoWishing someones death is a spitting insult in many cultures and for good reasons. Many insults are not meant literally.
- eljojo 12y agoI've been thinking a lot about this lately. Does the end justifies the means? Should we allow us to have dick developers because the come up with great code? My moral says no, but my craving for progress says yes. It's a battle that's been driving me nuts for a long time. Incidentally, this kind of incidents might slow down progress in the long term. update: by this kind of incidents i mean him being an asshole, not people telling on him. update 2: i don't endorse his behaviour.
- efaref 12y agoPeople seem to think that you should not be allowed to do something if someone else finds it rude or immoral. I think censoring people like Linus when they are clearly using hyperbole or other figures of speech is rude and immoral. Now what do we do?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- efaref 12y agoI guess the answer is to just continue ignoring and censoring people whose opinions we don't like. I'm cool with that.
- cjbprime 12y ago> Should we allow us to have dick developers because the come up with great code? Even if we're making this "the only thing that matters is how great the code is" argument, there are good arguments against allowing people to be hostile. You never know whether the size of your developer community could be larger. If you're turning 10 expert but conflict-averse developers away for every one asshole genius, it is unlikely that your code output/quality is being maximized. There's no shortage of people -- even people who are paid to hack on the kernel every day! -- who say that they refuse to engage with the upstream community due to the hostility they expect to receive or have received.
- Kalium 12y ago
- CmdrKrool 12y agoIs Linus euphemistically referring to someone specific there that everyone taking part in the conversation knows the real name of very well and who probably read that comment and recognized themselves, or is the idea of whomsoever decided that that thing should work "one byte at a time" a more diffuse fact that's obscured in history? That makes a difference in that particular situation, I feel.