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> Does it make application programming easier, less error prone, more accessible? If you want to write systems that improve the safety of application programmi

> Does it make application programming easier, less error prone, more accessible? If you want to write systems that improve the safety of application programming, it helps to have a lower-level understanding of what is happening. As for Mars, if articles like this (http://spinroot.com/dcas/ http://spinroot.com/dcas/) are any indication, there will need to be a lot of systems programming and especially tool building that requires deep systems understanding.

tptacek 12y ago
It's so weird to me, because for me, it is absolutely the other way around. It's easy to break into computer systems. Put a single quote in the wrong place on enough web apps in a /19's worth of IP addresses and you will get in. What's interesting about security is the tour of functionality it takes you on. Security is an opportunity to crawl into the ventilation ducts, open the hatches, and directly tinker with the inner workings of hugely complex systems. It's a goal system that gives you a reason to do that, that points you in a coherent direction, that forces you to learn and retain otherwise random-seeming details, and rewards you with huge endorphin rushes to keep you going. It doesn't even have to be competitive. It's just... fun. Virtually everything I know about computer science I learned because of software security. I don't think you need to care that much about security to benefit from a syllabus of exercises framed by security.
- javajosh 12y ago
  Well, see, that's totally coherent and makes a lot of sense. Everyone has had epiphanies from a deep dive or two, but usually it's bugs, not security, that "frames the discovery process". I think you should copy/paste this onto your landing page.
- jmagoon 12y ago
  Wow, that's such an awesome point. I still remember the rush from reading 2600 and trying to break into systems in middle/high school. That joy and excitement is totally gone now in Bob's CRUD Shop(TM), so it's phenomenal to have a curated lab to play around with (that won't get you arrested).

tptacek 12y ago

It's so weird to me, because for me, it is absolutely the other way around. It's easy to break into computer systems. Put a single quote in the wrong place on enough web apps in a /19's worth of IP addresses and you will get in. What's interesting about security is the tour of functionality it takes you on. Security is an opportunity to crawl into the ventilation ducts, open the hatches, and directly tinker with the inner workings of hugely complex systems. It's a goal system that gives you a reason to do that, that points you in a coherent direction, that forces you to learn and retain otherwise random-seeming details, and rewards you with huge endorphin rushes to keep you going. It doesn't even have to be competitive. It's just... fun. Virtually everything I know about computer science I learned because of software security. I don't think you need to care that much about security to benefit from a syllabus of exercises framed by security.

javajosh 12y ago
Well, see, that's totally coherent and makes a lot of sense. Everyone has had epiphanies from a deep dive or two, but usually it's bugs, not security, that "frames the discovery process". I think you should copy/paste this onto your landing page.
jmagoon 12y ago
Wow, that's such an awesome point. I still remember the rush from reading 2600 and trying to break into systems in middle/high school. That joy and excitement is totally gone now in Bob's CRUD Shop(TM), so it's phenomenal to have a curated lab to play around with (that won't get you arrested).