10 ms·

> "... if you ask people to follow the honor system, they tend to do it!" This is great but I think the stakes are somewhat different if it's ostensibly about

by amirmc 12y ago

> "... if you ask people to follow the honor system, they tend to do it!" This is great but I think the stakes are somewhat different if it's ostensibly about jobs/hiring. I don't recall the crypto challenges being promoted as a hiring mechanism (though they may have been useful for that).

tptacek 12y ago
The crypto challenges were how we (for instance) hired Alex: http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ I think we plan on making minimal demands of our users, and none of them involve grooming them for prospective employers. Look, the reality is, most of the people who participate aren't going to be looking for a job when they do. So all our incentives are to make the experience itself rewarding to participants. I'm weird about typing those words because very very soon we're going to actually ship the first rev and levels of this thing, and as anyone who ships software knows: right now, at this point in the release calendar, my instincts are to be LOWERING the bar, not raising it. :)
- throwawaymaroon 12y ago
  >I think we plan on making minimal demands of our users, and none of them involve grooming them for prospective employers. >most of the people who participate aren't going to be looking for a job when they do. This is weird, and I'm sensing some miscommunication between you and patio. I'm only hearing about this as a tool for proving my worth. Your major marketing (as far as I'll likely ever be aware) has CAREER CAREER CAREER stamped all over it. People won't follow the honor system if the stakes are at the 'career' level. You're losing the 'fun and free' culture of Microcorruption that makes people spend their free time building fun tools. Your understanding of the incentives differ from the incentives that have been communicated to me about Starfighter.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Patrick. You're fired. Anonymous Throwaway Account? Yes, you over there. I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU. Yes you. You're the new CEO. Get to work. Explain this to everyone else on HN. The clock's ticking!
    - throwawaymaroon 12y ago
      Just giving feedback as someone that's theoretically right square in the middle of your target audience. I really want to take this 'college course' and take advantage of what I see as your opportunity as a security expert to make your knowledge replicable. But I'll play along. I'll be taking Starfighter in a new direction. Most notably, we'll be reorganizing how we react to online discussion. Anonymous critics will be summarily executed unless we cannot identify them, in which case they shall merely be barred from Starfighter for life, which, if you believe our marketing department (AND AS CEO I DO IN FACT I'M SORRY I IMPLIED IT WAS POSSIBLE TO DOUBT THEIR CLAIMS), will make it very difficult for them to find work in the hiring utopia that is the post-Starfighter process.
- tripzilch 12y ago
  > The crypto challenges were how we (for instance) hired Alex But that's the use from your (or Matasano's) perspective. I joined the crypto-challenges not at all because I want a job in security, but because I continuously heard people be super-enthusiastic about it (both the participants, as well as yourself, tptacek :) ), because it reminded me of the old Malattia+ 3564020356 puzzles (level 6!), because it seemed more fun than the Euler Project puzzles (which I did enjoy, but you can only solve so many palindrome prime puzzles before it gets tedious) and of course because I would learn things about practical crypto. Unfortunately I only got halfway the first set of the Matasano challenges, but that was more because I did it in Python and at some point got frustrated by its lack of speed :) (even using NumPy) I did make a rather elegant English-text MLE detector using a log-probability frequency table of only 256 bytes :) I thought that was pretty cool. I might have another go at it and this time use Java instead.

by amirmc 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

The crypto challenges were how we (for instance) hired Alex: http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ I think we plan on making minimal demands of our users, and none of them involve grooming them for prospective employers. Look, the reality is, most of the people who participate aren't going to be looking for a job when they do. So all our incentives are to make the experience itself rewarding to participants. I'm weird about typing those words because very very soon we're going to actually ship the first rev and levels of this thing, and as anyone who ships software knows: right now, at this point in the release calendar, my instincts are to be LOWERING the bar, not raising it. :)

throwawaymaroon 12y ago
>I think we plan on making minimal demands of our users, and none of them involve grooming them for prospective employers. >most of the people who participate aren't going to be looking for a job when they do. This is weird, and I'm sensing some miscommunication between you and patio. I'm only hearing about this as a tool for proving my worth. Your major marketing (as far as I'll likely ever be aware) has CAREER CAREER CAREER stamped all over it. People won't follow the honor system if the stakes are at the 'career' level. You're losing the 'fun and free' culture of Microcorruption that makes people spend their free time building fun tools. Your understanding of the incentives differ from the incentives that have been communicated to me about Starfighter.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Patrick. You're fired. Anonymous Throwaway Account? Yes, you over there. I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU. Yes you. You're the new CEO. Get to work. Explain this to everyone else on HN. The clock's ticking!
  - throwawaymaroon 12y ago
    Just giving feedback as someone that's theoretically right square in the middle of your target audience. I really want to take this 'college course' and take advantage of what I see as your opportunity as a security expert to make your knowledge replicable. But I'll play along. I'll be taking Starfighter in a new direction. Most notably, we'll be reorganizing how we react to online discussion. Anonymous critics will be summarily executed unless we cannot identify them, in which case they shall merely be barred from Starfighter for life, which, if you believe our marketing department (AND AS CEO I DO IN FACT I'M SORRY I IMPLIED IT WAS POSSIBLE TO DOUBT THEIR CLAIMS), will make it very difficult for them to find work in the hiring utopia that is the post-Starfighter process.
tripzilch 12y ago
> The crypto challenges were how we (for instance) hired Alex But that's the use from your (or Matasano's) perspective. I joined the crypto-challenges not at all because I want a job in security, but because I continuously heard people be super-enthusiastic about it (both the participants, as well as yourself, tptacek :) ), because it reminded me of the old Malattia+ 3564020356 puzzles (level 6!), because it seemed more fun than the Euler Project puzzles (which I did enjoy, but you can only solve so many palindrome prime puzzles before it gets tedious) and of course because I would learn things about practical crypto. Unfortunately I only got halfway the first set of the Matasano challenges, but that was more because I did it in Python and at some point got frustrated by its lack of speed :) (even using NumPy) I did make a rather elegant English-text MLE detector using a log-probability frequency table of only 256 bytes :) I thought that was pretty cool. I might have another go at it and this time use Java instead.