4 ms·

The dichotomy of premium products and the shitworld makes a fun read, but between Shitphone, Premium Shitphone and iPhone, the author skips right over the most

by phlo 12y ago

The dichotomy of premium products and the shitworld makes a fun read, but between Shitphone, Premium Shitphone and iPhone, the author skips right over the most worthwile category: price-performance, value, or whatever you want to call it. Extremes, of course, always make for more interesting writing. Still, let's not forget about the perfectly viable middle ground: Where an $80 Shitphone is a hassle to use and an $800 iPhone seems wasteful, a $300 OnePlus One or Nexus 5 will deliver about the same utility at a bit than half the price. As far as I can tell, this will hold true for almost anything: $10 headphones typically won't fit well or sound good, but at $60, a pair of Shure SE215s sounds just as good as $200 beats. A $10k Kia will teach you to hate your commute, while either a $25k Jetta or a $75k Model S will get you to work comfortably -- one of them will just cost three times as much. It's an interesting testament to an excess of purchasing power that premium brands like Apple, beats (or large parts of the fashion industry) managed to grow to their current sizes. And it'll be interesting to watch how this whole "good enough computing" plays out.

rogerbinns 12y ago
From the world of economics are Veblen and Giffin goods - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good Both are examples where normal pricing and demand doesn't match (normal meaning demand goes down as price increases). It also explains why people don't just buy the cheapest product that meets most of their needs.
nick_urban 12y ago
I have a somewhat different approach. I generally either prefer to get a "shit" version of something or a super-premium version. If the thing is simple and timeless and easy to transport, I opt for the timeless route. If I think I might not keep it for more than a year or two, I usually get the cheap one. Midrange "luxury" items seem to be barely better quality than the best-cheap-options available, while most of their cost seems to go to marketing (or styling, in the case of clothes/fashion products). They also quickly depreciate. Super premium items, however, usually retain their value and are significantly more satisfying to hold/use. The place where this has been the _least_ true, in my experience, is with electronics. All electronics depreciate quickly. There is no timeless smart phone. Incidentally, Kia has been doing a great job lately. I rent a car almost every week, and after comparing the Kia Forte with the Jetta and the Optima with the Passat, I prefer the Kia in both cases. The VW automatic transmissions don't seem to shift very smoothly, and I actually found the trim levels to be comparable and the Kias more fun to drive.
- phlo 12y ago
  As someone who found a bit of an interest in fountain pens some years ago, I understand and shared your penchant to go for super-premium when it comes to timeless items. I have bought the occasional $500 pen (Graf von Faber Castell and Caran d'Ache have a couple of very beautiful items), but after one of the more expensive pens suffered some scuffs from light use and a friend of mine broke another one's clip, I came to the conclusion that I have a tendency to, as they say, break shit. I enjoy using them. To me, the little marks in the pens' platinum-covered cap don't take away from their sentimental value, but if I were to ever try and sell them, I wouldn't hope to ever get my purchase price back. The same, I believe, holds true for watches. When I noticed I had lost my $30 Cadence in a Metro, I barely scoffed. Since I had liked the design, I had an identical backup at home. Losing a timeless super-premium $10k Omega, on the other hand would've been a more severe problem. The pens, the Rolex watch and many things like them will retain their value just fine -- if you never touch, use, or in any way enjoy them. My initial comment went in exactly the same direction as yours on midrange "luxury" items, with the possible difference that I would consider an iPhone, the beats earphones or (to a lesser degree) the Tesla as the midrange pseudo-luxury choice. In my opinion, a large part of the retail price of each of those lies in the brand value and in the marketing done by those brands. As I view it, their prices are determined not by their cost or performance, but mostly on what the customers will pay. In my perception, the midrange choice (Shure Earphones, Nexus or -- as others mentioned -- Moto E/G, Jetta) more closely reflects the cost to manufacture the item. Their profit margins are slimmer and, more importantly, more consistent. As a final point, my apologies to Kia. Being European I tend to stick to public transport, rarely drive, and if so, tend to get cars with a manual gearbox. I was going to go with Dacia (Renault's Low-End Brand, I believe) first, but couldn't tell how well-known they were in the States. I also was under the impression that VW's interior was considered to be of rather high quality while I have read some negative comments on Tesla's.
  - busterarm 12y ago
    You can have a nice, semi-premium watch for cheap. Rolex Air Kings are fantastic watches and have a healthy and inexpensive used market. I hate current watch stylings (large, ~40mm+ faces) so my grandfather's Air King from '67 suits me fine for daily wear. You can do fantastically well for yourself if you have/develop a taste for Soviet watches. A large number of them look great and have as-good or nearly-as-good movements and can be had for $50-150($400 on the extreme outside...). The better ones among these will have service records with them. If you like great watches that get attention while being nearly-throwaway, this is the way to go.
jpatokal 12y ago
He actually does make that same conclusion regarding the Premium Shitphone: > It is one-quarter the price of an iPhone 6 and feels like at least two-thirds the phone.

by phlo 12y ago

rogerbinns 12y ago

From the world of economics are Veblen and Giffin goods - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good Both are examples where normal pricing and demand doesn't match (normal meaning demand goes down as price increases). It also explains why people don't just buy the cheapest product that meets most of their needs.

nick_urban 12y ago

I have a somewhat different approach. I generally either prefer to get a "shit" version of something or a super-premium version. If the thing is simple and timeless and easy to transport, I opt for the timeless route. If I think I might not keep it for more than a year or two, I usually get the cheap one. Midrange "luxury" items seem to be barely better quality than the best-cheap-options available, while most of their cost seems to go to marketing (or styling, in the case of clothes/fashion products). They also quickly depreciate. Super premium items, however, usually retain their value and are significantly more satisfying to hold/use. The place where this has been the _least_ true, in my experience, is with electronics. All electronics depreciate quickly. There is no timeless smart phone. Incidentally, Kia has been doing a great job lately. I rent a car almost every week, and after comparing the Kia Forte with the Jetta and the Optima with the Passat, I prefer the Kia in both cases. The VW automatic transmissions don't seem to shift very smoothly, and I actually found the trim levels to be comparable and the Kias more fun to drive.

phlo 12y ago
As someone who found a bit of an interest in fountain pens some years ago, I understand and shared your penchant to go for super-premium when it comes to timeless items. I have bought the occasional $500 pen (Graf von Faber Castell and Caran d'Ache have a couple of very beautiful items), but after one of the more expensive pens suffered some scuffs from light use and a friend of mine broke another one's clip, I came to the conclusion that I have a tendency to, as they say, break shit. I enjoy using them. To me, the little marks in the pens' platinum-covered cap don't take away from their sentimental value, but if I were to ever try and sell them, I wouldn't hope to ever get my purchase price back. The same, I believe, holds true for watches. When I noticed I had lost my $30 Cadence in a Metro, I barely scoffed. Since I had liked the design, I had an identical backup at home. Losing a timeless super-premium $10k Omega, on the other hand would've been a more severe problem. The pens, the Rolex watch and many things like them will retain their value just fine -- if you never touch, use, or in any way enjoy them. My initial comment went in exactly the same direction as yours on midrange "luxury" items, with the possible difference that I would consider an iPhone, the beats earphones or (to a lesser degree) the Tesla as the midrange pseudo-luxury choice. In my opinion, a large part of the retail price of each of those lies in the brand value and in the marketing done by those brands. As I view it, their prices are determined not by their cost or performance, but mostly on what the customers will pay. In my perception, the midrange choice (Shure Earphones, Nexus or -- as others mentioned -- Moto E/G, Jetta) more closely reflects the cost to manufacture the item. Their profit margins are slimmer and, more importantly, more consistent. As a final point, my apologies to Kia. Being European I tend to stick to public transport, rarely drive, and if so, tend to get cars with a manual gearbox. I was going to go with Dacia (Renault's Low-End Brand, I believe) first, but couldn't tell how well-known they were in the States. I also was under the impression that VW's interior was considered to be of rather high quality while I have read some negative comments on Tesla's.
- busterarm 12y ago
  You can have a nice, semi-premium watch for cheap. Rolex Air Kings are fantastic watches and have a healthy and inexpensive used market. I hate current watch stylings (large, ~40mm+ faces) so my grandfather's Air King from '67 suits me fine for daily wear. You can do fantastically well for yourself if you have/develop a taste for Soviet watches. A large number of them look great and have as-good or nearly-as-good movements and can be had for $50-150($400 on the extreme outside...). The better ones among these will have service records with them. If you like great watches that get attention while being nearly-throwaway, this is the way to go.

jpatokal 12y ago

He actually does make that same conclusion regarding the Premium Shitphone: > It is one-quarter the price of an iPhone 6 and feels like at least two-thirds the phone.