5 ms·

If you're looking purely at specs, Windows laptops always were the better deal. But only when you use those alternatives do you realize how much further ahead A

by dntrkv 12y ago

If you're looking purely at specs, Windows laptops always were the better deal. But only when you use those alternatives do you realize how much further ahead Apple is.

pionar 12y ago
Not really farther at all. Examples? Dell, HP, and Lenovo all have notebooks out there that are as good as any Apple notebook.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  This is always true for a given version of "as good as." Heck, it would be true for the correctly chosen "better." The truly tricky part is knowing what "as good as" or "better" will actually play well in the market.
- dntrkv 12y ago
  Until you pick them up, use them, have them break, and try to get support. I used to be the guy pointing out how there are Windows laptops that are just as good as Macs. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that I just completely gave up on the Windows market and just converted fully to Apple's ecosystem. Couldn't be happier. The Windows market is in a constant state of "almost as good as Apple."
  - pfisch 12y ago
    I have a macbook and an xps. I like the xps better for several reasons. It is difficult if not impossible to output a macbook to a tv over hdmi and also send audio. Also the dongle that does hdmi conversion breaks all the time. Our office has gone through like 4-5 of them. It is/was very difficult to disable your laptop display when plugged into a monitor in MacOS(I doubt they have fixed this issue). Also the macbook is crazily overpriced.
    - dntrkv 12y ago
      I'm guessing you're using the Air? I've had the Air with the Display Port to HDMI dongle and now have the Pro with HDMI built in, neither had issues with outputting HDMI sound. Just plug it in, and make sure the audio output is set to the TV in the Sound settings in System Preferences. Never tried that second part, but the multi monitor support in the last couple releases of MacOS have been amazing.
    - nilkn 12y ago
      > It is/was very difficult to disable your laptop display when plugged into a monitor in MacOS(I doubt they have fixed this issue). Also the macbook is crazily overpriced. Can't you just do clamshell mode? I haven't had any issues with that with my Macbook Air.
  - mindcruzer 12y ago
    Fully agree. I just got a new MacBook pro in January, and I'm completely blown away by the UX.
  - eos_styx 12y ago
    The trackpad on my thinkpad broke. I spent 10 minutes on the phone with technical support that actually knew what I was talking about and they mailed me a whole new part. I replaced it and went on my way as happy as could be. In contrast: By friend who owns a mac tried to set up a appointment because her hard drive was making the sound of a grinder. They told her that they could not make an appointment on the phone, she needed to use the iPhone app to do that. Well, she doesn't have an iPhone so the only option she had was to stand in line at the apple store 40 minutes away and wait. She spend two days doing this since it closed before they got to her on the first day and then the took her hard drive and replaced it while erasing all her personal data. It's a good thing I made a backup first. Great Customer Service for sure almost as good as Comcast.
    - hobolord 12y ago
      you can book an appointment online, so that would be the other option
    - dntrkv 12y ago
      Sure, every once in a while I'm sure someone has a bad experience with their support but I feel it's a well-accepted notion that Apple has the best support in the consumer tech industry. A few sources I found in a couple minutes of searching: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2c2817%2c2452946%2c00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2c2817%2c2452946%2c00.asp http://blog.laptopmag.com/tech-support-showdown http://blog.laptopmag.com/tech-support-showdown http://www.thestreet.com/story/11366677/1/the-best-and-worst-of-customer-support.html http://www.thestreet.com/story/11366677/1/the-best-and-worst... http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/04/apple-is-tops-when-it-comes-to-computer-tech-support/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/04/apple-is-top... I've dealt with Dell, Microsoft, Acer, Asus, and HP in the past on multiple occasions for each, and it was always a headache. With Apple, it was always as simple as walking into the store and walking out with my issues resolved. I've even had them fix a keyboard that broke due to my fault on an out of warranty machine for just the cost of parts. The fact that you can go to a physical location and get service puts them on a different level.
      - 12y ago
Retric 12y ago
Actually, the dell seems to be stuck with a tiny HDD even on the 1300$ model. 128GB in 2015 on a 1,000+$ laptop is ridiculous you can get phones with that much disk space. Sure, they bump it on the $1,600$ model, but by then not having ~512 seems silly. PS: You can get a 512GB desktop SSD drive for under 180$ so cost wise it's a non issue. And 30$ micro SD cards are at 64GB so 512GB would not be a space issue.
- kbenson 12y ago
  According to anandtech, they are offering 512 GB at some point, and they have pricing. It's in the spec breakdown on the first page of their review[1]. It's not cheap to upgrade the drive, which is fairly standard with Dell. 1: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review
  - Retric 12y ago
    Can you find any way to order that on their site? Anyway, you will also note they did not actually send the i7 versions off for testing as the battery life would tank. IMO, there are three basic classes of laptop ultra-portable trade power for awesome battery life and light weight, desktop replacements which are meant to be used on a desk, and gaming machines. You can dump a large SSD into an ultra-portable without issue but dells approach of bumping RAM, CPU, HDD, etc. in lockstep just means their ultra-portables are stuck with tiny disks for little reason.
    - kbenson 12y ago
      512GB? Not yet. 256GB? Yes. I'm not sure why you are asking though. Do you think they aren't going to provide it for some reason? You might want to read that whole review if you haven't already. They found that the XPs 13 had excellent battery life, to the point that they tested it and it was exactly what was advertised. That is, for the low-end screen (1080p) they got over 15 hours of light usage. Dell provides battery life estimates for different configurations (visible in the review[1]), so it's not inconceivable that i7 light usage might get over 11 hours as Dell claims. 1: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review/6
throwawaymsft 12y ago
And specs don't capture the OS UX differences (do you love metro on a non-touch device?), bloatware/spyware/adware pre-installed, activation headaches, app ecosystem... It's like comparing the value of two watches using the slag value of melting them down. If that's how you shop, the device isn't for you.
- Goronmon 12y ago
  (do you love metro on a non-touch device?) Metro is largely insignificant on non-touch devices. Most days I only see it in the brief period during "Windows Key -> 'chr' -> Enter". I never understood the Metro hate mainly because I find it such an unimportant part of the OS in non-touch day-to-day use.

by dntrkv 12y ago

If you're looking purely at specs, Windows laptops always were the better deal. But only when you use those alternatives do you realize how much further ahead Apple is.

pionar 12y ago

Not really farther at all. Examples? Dell, HP, and Lenovo all have notebooks out there that are as good as any Apple notebook.

stcredzero 12y ago
This is always true for a given version of "as good as." Heck, it would be true for the correctly chosen "better." The truly tricky part is knowing what "as good as" or "better" will actually play well in the market.
dntrkv 12y ago
Until you pick them up, use them, have them break, and try to get support. I used to be the guy pointing out how there are Windows laptops that are just as good as Macs. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that I just completely gave up on the Windows market and just converted fully to Apple's ecosystem. Couldn't be happier. The Windows market is in a constant state of "almost as good as Apple."
- pfisch 12y ago
  I have a macbook and an xps. I like the xps better for several reasons. It is difficult if not impossible to output a macbook to a tv over hdmi and also send audio. Also the dongle that does hdmi conversion breaks all the time. Our office has gone through like 4-5 of them. It is/was very difficult to disable your laptop display when plugged into a monitor in MacOS(I doubt they have fixed this issue). Also the macbook is crazily overpriced.
  - dntrkv 12y ago
    I'm guessing you're using the Air? I've had the Air with the Display Port to HDMI dongle and now have the Pro with HDMI built in, neither had issues with outputting HDMI sound. Just plug it in, and make sure the audio output is set to the TV in the Sound settings in System Preferences. Never tried that second part, but the multi monitor support in the last couple releases of MacOS have been amazing.
  - nilkn 12y ago
    > It is/was very difficult to disable your laptop display when plugged into a monitor in MacOS(I doubt they have fixed this issue). Also the macbook is crazily overpriced. Can't you just do clamshell mode? I haven't had any issues with that with my Macbook Air.
- mindcruzer 12y ago
  Fully agree. I just got a new MacBook pro in January, and I'm completely blown away by the UX.
- eos_styx 12y ago
  The trackpad on my thinkpad broke. I spent 10 minutes on the phone with technical support that actually knew what I was talking about and they mailed me a whole new part. I replaced it and went on my way as happy as could be. In contrast: By friend who owns a mac tried to set up a appointment because her hard drive was making the sound of a grinder. They told her that they could not make an appointment on the phone, she needed to use the iPhone app to do that. Well, she doesn't have an iPhone so the only option she had was to stand in line at the apple store 40 minutes away and wait. She spend two days doing this since it closed before they got to her on the first day and then the took her hard drive and replaced it while erasing all her personal data. It's a good thing I made a backup first. Great Customer Service for sure almost as good as Comcast.
  - hobolord 12y ago
    you can book an appointment online, so that would be the other option
  - dntrkv 12y ago
    Sure, every once in a while I'm sure someone has a bad experience with their support but I feel it's a well-accepted notion that Apple has the best support in the consumer tech industry. A few sources I found in a couple minutes of searching: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2c2817%2c2452946%2c00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2c2817%2c2452946%2c00.asp http://blog.laptopmag.com/tech-support-showdown http://blog.laptopmag.com/tech-support-showdown http://www.thestreet.com/story/11366677/1/the-best-and-worst-of-customer-support.html http://www.thestreet.com/story/11366677/1/the-best-and-worst... http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/04/apple-is-tops-when-it-comes-to-computer-tech-support/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/04/apple-is-top... I've dealt with Dell, Microsoft, Acer, Asus, and HP in the past on multiple occasions for each, and it was always a headache. With Apple, it was always as simple as walking into the store and walking out with my issues resolved. I've even had them fix a keyboard that broke due to my fault on an out of warranty machine for just the cost of parts. The fact that you can go to a physical location and get service puts them on a different level.
    - 12y ago

Retric 12y ago

Actually, the dell seems to be stuck with a tiny HDD even on the 1300$ model. 128GB in 2015 on a 1,000+$ laptop is ridiculous you can get phones with that much disk space. Sure, they bump it on the $1,600$ model, but by then not having ~512 seems silly. PS: You can get a 512GB desktop SSD drive for under 180$ so cost wise it's a non issue. And 30$ micro SD cards are at 64GB so 512GB would not be a space issue.

kbenson 12y ago
According to anandtech, they are offering 512 GB at some point, and they have pricing. It's in the spec breakdown on the first page of their review[1]. It's not cheap to upgrade the drive, which is fairly standard with Dell. 1: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review
- Retric 12y ago
  Can you find any way to order that on their site? Anyway, you will also note they did not actually send the i7 versions off for testing as the battery life would tank. IMO, there are three basic classes of laptop ultra-portable trade power for awesome battery life and light weight, desktop replacements which are meant to be used on a desk, and gaming machines. You can dump a large SSD into an ultra-portable without issue but dells approach of bumping RAM, CPU, HDD, etc. in lockstep just means their ultra-portables are stuck with tiny disks for little reason.
  - kbenson 12y ago
    512GB? Not yet. 256GB? Yes. I'm not sure why you are asking though. Do you think they aren't going to provide it for some reason? You might want to read that whole review if you haven't already. They found that the XPs 13 had excellent battery life, to the point that they tested it and it was exactly what was advertised. That is, for the low-end screen (1080p) they got over 15 hours of light usage. Dell provides battery life estimates for different configurations (visible in the review[1]), so it's not inconceivable that i7 light usage might get over 11 hours as Dell claims. 1: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/8983/dell-xps-13-review/6

throwawaymsft 12y ago

And specs don't capture the OS UX differences (do you love metro on a non-touch device?), bloatware/spyware/adware pre-installed, activation headaches, app ecosystem... It's like comparing the value of two watches using the slag value of melting them down. If that's how you shop, the device isn't for you.

Goronmon 12y ago
(do you love metro on a non-touch device?) Metro is largely insignificant on non-touch devices. Most days I only see it in the brief period during "Windows Key -> 'chr' -> Enter". I never understood the Metro hate mainly because I find it such an unimportant part of the OS in non-touch day-to-day use.