5 ms·

> 2 month capstone project where you can build a startup or dive deep into computer science topics like artificial intelligence and machine learning. There is

by pnathan 12y ago

> 2 month capstone project where you can build a startup or dive deep into computer science topics like artificial intelligence and machine learning. There is no deep in two months. There's broad, there's skim, there's sophomoric. But there's no deep. Particularly for people not already seasoned and experienced in ingesting vast quantities of difficult data and drawing out inferences. Edit: Some more notes. There are 6 headliners in https://www.makeschool.com/education https://www.makeschool.com/education. Of those, one (CS) was covered adequately in my college career, one was given lip service (Communication, something I struggle with today), one I learned on my own (Open source), app dev & web dev were largely irrelevant to my education (principles over practice), and networking (people, not wires) was totally neglected. Communication and networking are both subjects that deserve to be a higher priority in collegiate CS environments. My perspective is that this is essentially a trade school, which is a good thing. It's not a replacement for a four year degree, it's a two year degree, which is something basically lacking in the software world. Now, if this general package could be rolled up into a traditional two-year trade school, I'd be all for it.

nmrm2 12y ago
But they're looking for top students, so presumably their competitors are MIT, CMU, Stanford, etc. rather than the local Community College. Trade schools are great things, but I'm not sure I could feel comfortable advising a student to turn down MIT for a trade school, even one with really great connections.
- pitt1980 12y ago
  considering the price tag of those schools, they should be the most vulnerable to competition
  - swatow 12y ago
    But almost all top schools have needs-blind admissions which means that if you get in, they will provide the financial aid that you need if you can't afford it. So it's actually very unlikely someone gets into a top school but then decides it's not worth the money (assuming the school is worth the money, which it is, and the only issue is whether they can afford it right now).
    - pitt1980 12y ago
      what college adminstrators will decide you need, and what you think you might need, can differ significantly
      - swatow 12y ago
        I understand, but it still greatly ameliorates the problem, to the point where cost is no longer the main issue when going to a top school (again, assuming you have the money now). The long term payoff is certainly worth it.
      - beisner 12y ago
        They can differ, but they are usually extremely generous. I know loads of people who pay less for Princeton, Harvard, and MIT than they would for state school.
  - TTPrograms 12y ago
    It's not price tag alone that makes them vulnerable, it's price tag to value ratio. I would gladly take out $200K in loans for an education that would guarantee a $300K+ salary out of school. Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average seems to suggest that the expense is plenty justified. Will this offering be able to compete at all in the value delivered dimension? It seems like comparing apples and oranges.
    - pitt1980 12y ago
      "Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average" do you have a source for that? also keep in mind that those schools are starting with more capable students going in
      - TTPrograms 12y ago
        Median salary for software engineer - $76,074: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... CMU Software Engineers - $95,512 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Carnegie_Mellon_University_%28CMU%29/Salary#by_Job http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Carnegie_Mellon_U... MIT - $95,392 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology_(MIT)/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Massachusetts_Ins... Stanford - $111,324 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Stanford_University/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Stanford_Universi... +$20K a year for ~$30K in loans is a no brainer.
        pitt1980 12y ago
        where are you getting 30K from? I only have experience with what CMU will quote a family with modestly upper middle class means, about 10 years ago, but I was unimpressed the difference back then between them and state school was multiples more than 30K over 4 years 2 things about that 20K difference 1) how much of the can be attributed to better students starting off at those schools 2) I'm not convinced that the 20K a year difference persists over time, the state school engineer who becomes professionally accomplished will get raises, the elite school engineer who rests on their laurels won't what matters is the individual, not the school
  - s73v3r 12y ago
    If you do well at any of those schools, you'll likely end up with a job that will easily allow you to pay off any student loans you need to take out.
    - pitt1980 12y ago
      how is an 18 year old supposed to know if they will do well? what happens to non-dischargable debt if they don't do well?
- pnathan 12y ago
  Looking beyond their marketing, their offering seems very much a trade school curricula. Which is not wrong, bad, or something that shouldn't exist. But it will not be within shouting distance of a decent four-year degree for education.

by pnathan 12y ago

nmrm2 12y ago

But they're looking for top students, so presumably their competitors are MIT, CMU, Stanford, etc. rather than the local Community College. Trade schools are great things, but I'm not sure I could feel comfortable advising a student to turn down MIT for a trade school, even one with really great connections.

pitt1980 12y ago
considering the price tag of those schools, they should be the most vulnerable to competition
- swatow 12y ago
  But almost all top schools have needs-blind admissions which means that if you get in, they will provide the financial aid that you need if you can't afford it. So it's actually very unlikely someone gets into a top school but then decides it's not worth the money (assuming the school is worth the money, which it is, and the only issue is whether they can afford it right now).
  - pitt1980 12y ago
    what college adminstrators will decide you need, and what you think you might need, can differ significantly
    - swatow 12y ago
      I understand, but it still greatly ameliorates the problem, to the point where cost is no longer the main issue when going to a top school (again, assuming you have the money now). The long term payoff is certainly worth it.
    - beisner 12y ago
      They can differ, but they are usually extremely generous. I know loads of people who pay less for Princeton, Harvard, and MIT than they would for state school.
- TTPrograms 12y ago
  It's not price tag alone that makes them vulnerable, it's price tag to value ratio. I would gladly take out $200K in loans for an education that would guarantee a $300K+ salary out of school. Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average seems to suggest that the expense is plenty justified. Will this offering be able to compete at all in the value delivered dimension? It seems like comparing apples and oranges.
  - pitt1980 12y ago
    "Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average" do you have a source for that? also keep in mind that those schools are starting with more capable students going in
    - TTPrograms 12y ago
      Median salary for software engineer - $76,074: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... CMU Software Engineers - $95,512 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Carnegie_Mellon_University_%28CMU%29/Salary#by_Job http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Carnegie_Mellon_U... MIT - $95,392 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology_(MIT)/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Massachusetts_Ins... Stanford - $111,324 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Stanford_University/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Stanford_Universi... +$20K a year for ~$30K in loans is a no brainer.
      - pitt1980 12y ago
        where are you getting 30K from? I only have experience with what CMU will quote a family with modestly upper middle class means, about 10 years ago, but I was unimpressed the difference back then between them and state school was multiples more than 30K over 4 years 2 things about that 20K difference 1) how much of the can be attributed to better students starting off at those schools 2) I'm not convinced that the 20K a year difference persists over time, the state school engineer who becomes professionally accomplished will get raises, the elite school engineer who rests on their laurels won't what matters is the individual, not the school
- s73v3r 12y ago
  If you do well at any of those schools, you'll likely end up with a job that will easily allow you to pay off any student loans you need to take out.
  - pitt1980 12y ago
    how is an 18 year old supposed to know if they will do well? what happens to non-dischargable debt if they don't do well?
pnathan 12y ago
Looking beyond their marketing, their offering seems very much a trade school curricula. Which is not wrong, bad, or something that shouldn't exist. But it will not be within shouting distance of a decent four-year degree for education.