4 ms·

So you're replacing vendor lock-in with incompetence. I'm not quite sure which is more likely as there is extensive evidence on both sides of the coin.

by fnid 17y ago

invisible 17y ago
If there was incompetence. They don't sell OSX to install on netbooks - in no way is that advised. If it was advised I'd bet they'd ship a lot more OSX discs than they do. But no, they ship those discs to upgrade your Apple hardware to the latest operating system that they made work with your Apple hardware.
tvon 17y ago
The mis-use of the term "vendor lock-in" aside, how is it incompetent to not support something you don't support?
- fnid 17y ago
  Please explain how I mis-used the term, considering the definition is: In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in, or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. I didn't say this incident is the result of incompetence, I am saying their developers have illustrated a lack of competence in the past. Breaking with third party fonts installed. Breaking iPhone updates that require the use of another computer to fix a broken patch. The list goes on and on.
  - ianbishop 17y ago
    Actually you did say this incident was a result of incompetence when quoting someone speaking on this subject and how it is not vender lock in. Bringing up things which frankly have absolutely nothing to do with what we're currently talking about doesn't aid your argument.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
  - tvon 17y ago
    > Please explain how I mis-used the term, considering the definition is: In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in, or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. In what way does Apple lock you in? If you manage to switch to Apple, which is the more difficult task since you clearly have to buy their hardware and can't re-use what you already have, then switching away is as simple as installing Linux or Windows on the Apple hardware. > I didn't say this incident is the result of incompetence, I am saying their developers have illustrated a lack of competence in the past. Breaking with third party fonts installed. Breaking iPhone updates that require the use of another computer to fix a broken patch. The list goes on and on. No, you didn't say that, you are saying that now.
  - jsz0 17y ago
    I'll try: If the product in question is a netbook form factor. Apple does not produce this type of product however they do no impede a customer's ability to buy one from another vendor. You can walk into BestBuy and get one in about 15 minutes. Apple doesn't have a bunch of thugs wearing two layers of brightly colored polo shirts there to stop you by taking your credit card and forcing you to buy a MacBook instead. Additionally Apple offers software for Windows to interoperate with their services: iTunes for iPods/iPhones and iTunes Store and also a MobileMe control panel. They also offer QuickTime & Safari for Windows. If you want to use Apple's operating system then you have to buy an Apple computer. If that prevents you from buying the type of machine you want I would seriously reconsider using Apple's operating system in the first place. Other companies such as Microsoft have a business model of selling software so they don't care what hardware you buy. Apple makes it quite easy to install Windows on a Mac so they don't lock you into using OSX on their hardware. Apple is a hardware company. Your example of vendor lock-in would be more along the lines of going to an Dell Store (I know they don't exist, play along) and demanding they sell you an Apple computer instead.
    - fnid 17y ago
      The problem with this line of arguing is that Apple's entire marketing strategy is about how an Apple is better than a Windows machine. Thus, their product, contrary to what you are saying, is not hardware, it's software. Their ads say nothing about hardware manufacturers, they say everything about Windows. It's not Mac Book's are faster than Dells. It's Apple's are more secure than Windows. It's about Windows 7 vs Apple, not HP vs Apple. Therefore, inhibiting a consumer's ability to run that product, which is OSX as much as it is a physical device, is vendor lock-in. It is vendor lockin, because they are saying, "To run our product, OSX, you must buy Mac Hardware." And before you argue that OSX is not a product, they do in fact sell OSX: http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=osx http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=osx
      - jsz0 17y ago
        Marketing has little or nothing to do with reality. "requires a Mac with an Intel processor."

So you're replacing vendor lock-in with incompetence. I'm not quite sure which is more likely as there is extensive evidence on both sides of the coin.

by fnid 17y ago

So you're replacing vendor lock-in with incompetence. I'm not quite sure which is more likely as there is extensive evidence on both sides of the coin.

invisible 17y ago

If there was incompetence. They don't sell OSX to install on netbooks - in no way is that advised. If it was advised I'd bet they'd ship a lot more OSX discs than they do. But no, they ship those discs to upgrade your Apple hardware to the latest operating system that they made work with your Apple hardware.

tvon 17y ago

The mis-use of the term "vendor lock-in" aside, how is it incompetent to not support something you don't support?

fnid 17y ago
Please explain how I mis-used the term, considering the definition is: In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in, or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. I didn't say this incident is the result of incompetence, I am saying their developers have illustrated a lack of competence in the past. Breaking with third party fonts installed. Breaking iPhone updates that require the use of another computer to fix a broken patch. The list goes on and on.
- ianbishop 17y ago
  Actually you did say this incident was a result of incompetence when quoting someone speaking on this subject and how it is not vender lock in. Bringing up things which frankly have absolutely nothing to do with what we're currently talking about doesn't aid your argument.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- tvon 17y ago
  > Please explain how I mis-used the term, considering the definition is: In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in, or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. In what way does Apple lock you in? If you manage to switch to Apple, which is the more difficult task since you clearly have to buy their hardware and can't re-use what you already have, then switching away is as simple as installing Linux or Windows on the Apple hardware. > I didn't say this incident is the result of incompetence, I am saying their developers have illustrated a lack of competence in the past. Breaking with third party fonts installed. Breaking iPhone updates that require the use of another computer to fix a broken patch. The list goes on and on. No, you didn't say that, you are saying that now.
- jsz0 17y ago
  I'll try: If the product in question is a netbook form factor. Apple does not produce this type of product however they do no impede a customer's ability to buy one from another vendor. You can walk into BestBuy and get one in about 15 minutes. Apple doesn't have a bunch of thugs wearing two layers of brightly colored polo shirts there to stop you by taking your credit card and forcing you to buy a MacBook instead. Additionally Apple offers software for Windows to interoperate with their services: iTunes for iPods/iPhones and iTunes Store and also a MobileMe control panel. They also offer QuickTime & Safari for Windows. If you want to use Apple's operating system then you have to buy an Apple computer. If that prevents you from buying the type of machine you want I would seriously reconsider using Apple's operating system in the first place. Other companies such as Microsoft have a business model of selling software so they don't care what hardware you buy. Apple makes it quite easy to install Windows on a Mac so they don't lock you into using OSX on their hardware. Apple is a hardware company. Your example of vendor lock-in would be more along the lines of going to an Dell Store (I know they don't exist, play along) and demanding they sell you an Apple computer instead.
  - fnid 17y ago
    The problem with this line of arguing is that Apple's entire marketing strategy is about how an Apple is better than a Windows machine. Thus, their product, contrary to what you are saying, is not hardware, it's software. Their ads say nothing about hardware manufacturers, they say everything about Windows. It's not Mac Book's are faster than Dells. It's Apple's are more secure than Windows. It's about Windows 7 vs Apple, not HP vs Apple. Therefore, inhibiting a consumer's ability to run that product, which is OSX as much as it is a physical device, is vendor lock-in. It is vendor lockin, because they are saying, "To run our product, OSX, you must buy Mac Hardware." And before you argue that OSX is not a product, they do in fact sell OSX: http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=osx http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=osx
    - jsz0 17y ago
      Marketing has little or nothing to do with reality. "requires a Mac with an Intel processor."