5 ms·

I can't imagine that the Java installer asking to install the Ask.com toolbar on a Fortune 1000 CEO's home computer is terribly good marketing, though.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
Those guys don't touch their machines or ever install anything. IT pushes out Java from an extracted MSI (yes oracle wont even publish the MSI, you need to rip it out of the exe). Its small company and home users who deal with this crap. No one cares about them, thus toolbars and crapware.
- doah78 12y ago
  Actually, you don't even need the msi, unless that is the only mode you have for installation. Can use the java package with a /s switch and then use the deployment.properties file with custom configs in the link below to disable many features for java. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/jcp/properties.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/j...
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    Visit /r/sysadmin and ask how well that works. Oracle makes undocumented changes and breaks things all the time. So you can have the proper settings to ignore toolbars, but randomly they'll install. Whoops. Who at Oracle do you complain to? MSI's are just safer/simpler/easier to test/easier to deploy. The fact that they hide it is pretty unforgivable.
    - doah78 12y ago
      If they are installing, you are using the wrong installer. The one from the developers section on oracle's website does not include these toolbar's. Yes, msi's are easier to work with and many companies do not provide them, not just Oracle, but when you are given lemon's you make lemonade. Especially since complaining to oracle will get you no where.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
No Fortune 1000 CEO uses a Mac, so that's not an issue.
- benaiah 12y ago
  I think Tim Cook might.
  - pornel 12y ago
    He knows already. Apple has stopped including Java in OS X and banned Java in the AppStore.
    - desdiv 12y ago
      Oh, how the mighty have fallen. This is what developer.apple.com/java read back in 2009 [0]: Mac OS X is the only major consumer operating system that comes complete with a fully configured and ready-to-use Java runtime and development environment. Professional Java developers are increasingly turning to the feature-rich Mac OS X as the operating system of choice for both Mac-based and cross-platform Java development projects. Mac OS X includes the full version of J2SE 1.5, pre-installed with the Java Development Kit (JDK) and the HotSpot virtual machine (VM), so you don't have to download, install, or configure anything. Deploying Java applications on Mac OS X takes advantage of many built-in features, including 64-bit support, resolution independence, automatic support of multiprocessor hardware, native support for the Java Accessibility API, and the native Aqua look and feel. As a result, Java applications on Mac OS X look and perform like native applications on Mac OS X. [0] http://wayback.archive.org/web/20091223033016/http://developer.apple.com/java/ http://wayback.archive.org/web/20091223033016/http://develop...
    - spot 12y ago
      i believe they banned apps that depend on the system java. you can still include your own JRE.
    - mike_hearn 12y ago
      There are lots of apps in the app store written in Java. However they have to ship a bundled JRE themselves. Oddly, Oracle provide a tool to create a DMG with a .app inside that has a bundled inside. It's very easy to use. Doing this means your users don't need to install Java themselves anymore. Seems like the left hand cutting off the revenue stream of the right hand, but hey, I'm not complaining.
fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
They've been doing it on Windows and Linux for quite a while.
- easytiger 12y ago
  not when you do `tar xvzf jdk.tar.gz` which most enterpirse worlds will do as they manage their own estates.
Guvante 12y ago
Most Fortune 1000 companies don't allow their end users to install anything so this just causes the IT guy the amount of time it takes to have the config file set to "don't do that", heck they probably only have to do it once, or the version they use may not include the toolbar.
- doah78 12y ago
  And most IT Admins know that the best place to get the installer isn't from Java.com that has crapware built into the installer but from the link below which doesn't have crapware built in. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/inde...
  - sheensleeves 12y ago
    I think it's not that nerd outrage isn't a force for change, it's that nerds just find a workaround like this link, and then move on with their life. The rest of people get stuck w/ toolbars, supercookies, etc.
  - Silhouette 12y ago
    You can also use Ninite, which solves this kind of problem for quite a few popular software packages without having to remember specific workarounds for every one.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That's why he added the 'home computer' bit.
- eitally 12y ago
  Most Fortune 1000 company's managers also hate Java/Oracle, but it was the safe choice at some point (where the alternative was probably SAP), and now they're locked in.
- stealthlogic 12y ago
  'tis but a simple registry edit rolled out via Group Policy.
anigbrowl 12y ago
CEO's computers are usually looked after by someone from an IT department. I doubt that most of them know or care. Even on the home computer, they just pay some good local tech to keep it running smoothly if they can't figure a way to have an employee do it.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

Those guys don't touch their machines or ever install anything. IT pushes out Java from an extracted MSI (yes oracle wont even publish the MSI, you need to rip it out of the exe). Its small company and home users who deal with this crap. No one cares about them, thus toolbars and crapware.

doah78 12y ago
Actually, you don't even need the msi, unless that is the only mode you have for installation. Can use the java package with a /s switch and then use the deployment.properties file with custom configs in the link below to disable many features for java. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/jcp/properties.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/j...
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  Visit /r/sysadmin and ask how well that works. Oracle makes undocumented changes and breaks things all the time. So you can have the proper settings to ignore toolbars, but randomly they'll install. Whoops. Who at Oracle do you complain to? MSI's are just safer/simpler/easier to test/easier to deploy. The fact that they hide it is pretty unforgivable.
  - doah78 12y ago
    If they are installing, you are using the wrong installer. The one from the developers section on oracle's website does not include these toolbar's. Yes, msi's are easier to work with and many companies do not provide them, not just Oracle, but when you are given lemon's you make lemonade. Especially since complaining to oracle will get you no where.

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

No Fortune 1000 CEO uses a Mac, so that's not an issue.

benaiah 12y ago
I think Tim Cook might.
- pornel 12y ago
  He knows already. Apple has stopped including Java in OS X and banned Java in the AppStore.
  - desdiv 12y ago
    Oh, how the mighty have fallen. This is what developer.apple.com/java read back in 2009 [0]: Mac OS X is the only major consumer operating system that comes complete with a fully configured and ready-to-use Java runtime and development environment. Professional Java developers are increasingly turning to the feature-rich Mac OS X as the operating system of choice for both Mac-based and cross-platform Java development projects. Mac OS X includes the full version of J2SE 1.5, pre-installed with the Java Development Kit (JDK) and the HotSpot virtual machine (VM), so you don't have to download, install, or configure anything. Deploying Java applications on Mac OS X takes advantage of many built-in features, including 64-bit support, resolution independence, automatic support of multiprocessor hardware, native support for the Java Accessibility API, and the native Aqua look and feel. As a result, Java applications on Mac OS X look and perform like native applications on Mac OS X. [0] http://wayback.archive.org/web/20091223033016/http://developer.apple.com/java/ http://wayback.archive.org/web/20091223033016/http://develop...
  - spot 12y ago
    i believe they banned apps that depend on the system java. you can still include your own JRE.
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    There are lots of apps in the app store written in Java. However they have to ship a bundled JRE themselves. Oddly, Oracle provide a tool to create a DMG with a .app inside that has a bundled inside. It's very easy to use. Doing this means your users don't need to install Java themselves anymore. Seems like the left hand cutting off the revenue stream of the right hand, but hey, I'm not complaining.

fnordfnordfnord 12y ago

They've been doing it on Windows and Linux for quite a while.

easytiger 12y ago
not when you do `tar xvzf jdk.tar.gz` which most enterpirse worlds will do as they manage their own estates.

Guvante 12y ago

Most Fortune 1000 companies don't allow their end users to install anything so this just causes the IT guy the amount of time it takes to have the config file set to "don't do that", heck they probably only have to do it once, or the version they use may not include the toolbar.

doah78 12y ago
And most IT Admins know that the best place to get the installer isn't from Java.com that has crapware built into the installer but from the link below which doesn't have crapware built in. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/inde...
- sheensleeves 12y ago
  I think it's not that nerd outrage isn't a force for change, it's that nerds just find a workaround like this link, and then move on with their life. The rest of people get stuck w/ toolbars, supercookies, etc.
- Silhouette 12y ago
  You can also use Ninite, which solves this kind of problem for quite a few popular software packages without having to remember specific workarounds for every one.
jacquesm 12y ago
That's why he added the 'home computer' bit.
eitally 12y ago
Most Fortune 1000 company's managers also hate Java/Oracle, but it was the safe choice at some point (where the alternative was probably SAP), and now they're locked in.
stealthlogic 12y ago
'tis but a simple registry edit rolled out via Group Policy.

anigbrowl 12y ago

CEO's computers are usually looked after by someone from an IT department. I doubt that most of them know or care. Even on the home computer, they just pay some good local tech to keep it running smoothly if they can't figure a way to have an employee do it.