3 ms·

Here's what Elon Musk said during his conversation with Sal Khan, the founder of Khan Academy (that he invested) about online courses by talented teachers: ---

Here's what Elon Musk said during his conversation with Sal Khan, the founder of Khan Academy (that he invested) about online courses by talented teachers: --- Elon Musk: The analogy I sometimes use is, you've seen like Batman – like the Chris Nolan movie – like the original one. And it's pretty frickin awesome. Right? You've got incredible special effects, great script multiple takes, amazing actors, and great sound. It's very... is very engaging But if you would instead say okay that you have the same script so, at least the same script, and you said, ok now that script, instead of having movies, we're going to have that script performed by the local town troupe. Okay and so in every small town in America, if movies didn't exist, they'd have to, then, recreate the Dark Knight. SAL: Right. ELON: Like with home-sewn costumes, and, like jumping across the stage – not giving their lines quite right, and not really looking like the people in the movie. And no special effects – that would suck. It would be terrible. SAL: That's right. Very, very – ELON: That's education. --- And here's the author's characterization of online courses: --- Our disarticulation of knowledge accumulation and knowledge transmission also leaves us exposed to an even more frightening adversary. I refer to tech and its maniacal destabilizing energy. Financiers have recognized that there’s good money to be made in conveying knowledge; their thoughts, naturally, do not linger on the costly infrastructure that produces knowledge. Working in tandem with the digital wizards, they wager that they can do it better than we can and cash out in the process. Given that they’re up against a cohort that has very little interest, or dexterity, in sharing its immense store of wisdom, the money and tech people like their odds. --- Also, lectures themselves are not that great to begin with, so that's something to consider too: http://educationoutrage.blogspot.ca/2015/01/why-do-we-give-lectures-why-does-anyone.html http://educationoutrage.blogspot.ca/2015/01/why-do-we-give-l...

taeric 12y ago
As someone that enjoys going to theater and dance events, I only take issue with the idea that this would suck and be terrible. Less produced. Sure. More work for the audience to imagine what is happening? Sure. Terrible? Not so much. I do think it cuts to the core of some of the problems with education reform. No amount of work by the teachers will prevent the students from having to work. No amount of work from the teachers will prevent some students from failing. My belief is that we need to make sure when a student fails, they use that failure as a lesson. Too often we beat people up with the failure such that they aren't learning from mistakes, but recovering from them.
- redthrow 12y ago
  > More work for the audience to imagine what is happening? Sure But this kind of 'work' is meaningless though. Books that contain a lot of typos/errors give students a lot of 'work' to 'imagine' what's going on, but that kind of work/imagination don't have to exist if the quality material was produced in the first place.
  - taeric 12y ago
    I feel we are shifting some metaphors here. The work I was referring to in that sentence was in the imagination of the audience during a theatrical performance. And I don't feel it is meaningless.
    - dropit_sphere 12y ago
      Yes, but it was Elon that did the shifting, and you that (unintentionally, I'm sure) took it too far. All Elon was trying to communicate was that centralization of production of cheaply replicable goods allows higher quality. If that applies to theater, explain that concept with reference to theater. If it doesn't apply to theater, throw it out for another metaphor.
      - taeric 12y ago
        Right, I was trying to throw it out. Production value is surprisingly low in value when it comes to education. My children have learned more from scrap paper laying around the house than they have from books, at this point. (They are young, so not yet in the target of these efforts.) Basically, my assertion would be that no amount of production value will make up for experimentation done by the student.
        dropit_sphere 12y ago
        I see now, and this is a good point. But I'm not certain that production value is a single variable in this case---there's production value that encourages experimentation, and production value that discourages it.
falcor84 12y ago
Well, this reminds me of the scene in Reign of Fire where the "amateur" Gerard Butler and Christian Bale put up a production of Star Wars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBA1wii70o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBA1wii70o I think I would enjoy watching that, even if those weren't famous actors, but just the regular people in my community.
germinalphrase 12y ago
My general reaction to this perspective is not that it's wrong, but that it's insufficient. Obviously, great teachers are going to be more effective than lazy/inexperienced/incompetent teachers. What a great online teacher can't do is help a child who doesn't fit the mold (which, suprise!, a great many don't). If a child isn't physically, cognitively, or emotionally prepared to learn they will just shut down when confronted with an online teacher (no matter how great that teacher may be). They will check Facebook, play games, or simply walk away from the computer. A flesh-and-blood teacher can intervene and redirect a student. Perhaps, they can substitute an element of the lesson to more closely align with the needs of that student (and often those needs may not always seem strictly rational). It would be great if the full impacts of that great teacher could be distributed over audio-video - but there is no substitute for personal interaction. Concordantly, The answer should not be to substitute a bad teacher with a great digital lecturer - it should be to turn that bad teacher into a great one (or replace them if it's not possible).
- redthrow 12y ago
  Sal Khan actually has some predictions on how education will change in the future: Year 2060: Education Predictions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKrFcgVSIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKrFcgVSIU Even Sal Khan doesn't think lectures-in-digital-form is the solution or the endgame.

taeric 12y ago

As someone that enjoys going to theater and dance events, I only take issue with the idea that this would suck and be terrible. Less produced. Sure. More work for the audience to imagine what is happening? Sure. Terrible? Not so much. I do think it cuts to the core of some of the problems with education reform. No amount of work by the teachers will prevent the students from having to work. No amount of work from the teachers will prevent some students from failing. My belief is that we need to make sure when a student fails, they use that failure as a lesson. Too often we beat people up with the failure such that they aren't learning from mistakes, but recovering from them.

redthrow 12y ago
> More work for the audience to imagine what is happening? Sure But this kind of 'work' is meaningless though. Books that contain a lot of typos/errors give students a lot of 'work' to 'imagine' what's going on, but that kind of work/imagination don't have to exist if the quality material was produced in the first place.
- taeric 12y ago
  I feel we are shifting some metaphors here. The work I was referring to in that sentence was in the imagination of the audience during a theatrical performance. And I don't feel it is meaningless.
  - dropit_sphere 12y ago
    Yes, but it was Elon that did the shifting, and you that (unintentionally, I'm sure) took it too far. All Elon was trying to communicate was that centralization of production of cheaply replicable goods allows higher quality. If that applies to theater, explain that concept with reference to theater. If it doesn't apply to theater, throw it out for another metaphor.
    - taeric 12y ago
      Right, I was trying to throw it out. Production value is surprisingly low in value when it comes to education. My children have learned more from scrap paper laying around the house than they have from books, at this point. (They are young, so not yet in the target of these efforts.) Basically, my assertion would be that no amount of production value will make up for experimentation done by the student.
      - dropit_sphere 12y ago
        I see now, and this is a good point. But I'm not certain that production value is a single variable in this case---there's production value that encourages experimentation, and production value that discourages it.

falcor84 12y ago

Well, this reminds me of the scene in Reign of Fire where the "amateur" Gerard Butler and Christian Bale put up a production of Star Wars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBA1wii70o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBA1wii70o I think I would enjoy watching that, even if those weren't famous actors, but just the regular people in my community.

germinalphrase 12y ago

My general reaction to this perspective is not that it's wrong, but that it's insufficient. Obviously, great teachers are going to be more effective than lazy/inexperienced/incompetent teachers. What a great online teacher can't do is help a child who doesn't fit the mold (which, suprise!, a great many don't). If a child isn't physically, cognitively, or emotionally prepared to learn they will just shut down when confronted with an online teacher (no matter how great that teacher may be). They will check Facebook, play games, or simply walk away from the computer. A flesh-and-blood teacher can intervene and redirect a student. Perhaps, they can substitute an element of the lesson to more closely align with the needs of that student (and often those needs may not always seem strictly rational). It would be great if the full impacts of that great teacher could be distributed over audio-video - but there is no substitute for personal interaction. Concordantly, The answer should not be to substitute a bad teacher with a great digital lecturer - it should be to turn that bad teacher into a great one (or replace them if it's not possible).

redthrow 12y ago
Sal Khan actually has some predictions on how education will change in the future: Year 2060: Education Predictions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKrFcgVSIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKrFcgVSIU Even Sal Khan doesn't think lectures-in-digital-form is the solution or the endgame.