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This whole notion of "jobs that come with a visa" is so screwed up and wrong and totally flawed at its core. I am sure that doesn't line up with what the vast

by wahsd 12y ago

This whole notion of "jobs that come with a visa" is so screwed up and wrong and totally flawed at its core. I am sure that doesn't line up with what the vast majority of people think, especially on this site; but it's a wholly damaging and negative practice in the long term, whose positive claims only mask the exploitative reality that underlies it. It's really nothing more than brain-drain, more like colonialism than not; the siphoning off of resources, knowledge and information resources from less advantaged places to be absorbed to compound the wealth in wealthy societies.

matthewmacleod 12y ago
I'm not totally convinced by that – it's really easy to see that there could well be long-term positives. For example, what proportion of people who travel for work end up returning to their home country, bringing back skills which are beneficial domestically? I think we'd need to see some studies on that to draw any real conclusions, but your reaction seems too negative.
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  There's also sort of an iron-curtain mentality emergent in telling people, "you can't come to the West to work on these tech jobs: your home country needs you to work on something you will probably find to be much less lucrative, technologically advanced, and fulfilling." People do not exist to be slaves exploited by their homeland any more than they exist to be slaves exploited by a colonial power.
hauget 12y ago
Screwed up and flawed HOW? If it wasn't for a job that provided me a work visa to work in the US and then France, I would have never left my home country for better opportunities. Are you even an immigrant to be talking so negatively about this? Sure, I'd like a job tied to no VISA, but sadly that's not how the system is setup.
davidw 12y ago
This is zero-sum thinking of the basest sort. If you've got the skills to be a really good software developer, you're just never going to go anywhere if you are stuck somewhere without electricity. Or if you're a woman in a country that doesn't let women do stuff. Or if you want to do fashion but live in rural Nebraska. Or if you have the talent to be a world class skier but were born in the Bahamas. There are all kinds of reasons to let people choose where they want to go themselves without you deciding where they can and can't go.
Dewie 12y ago
I for one look forward to the day when all interesting software jobs are to to be found in the US, I mean California, I mean the Bay Area. Not.
- Dewie 12y ago
  I'm sorry to have offended the Bay Area Software Overlords?
spion 12y ago
I think you're overestimating the effect that visas have VS other factors. Take the country's current socio-political situation as an example Moving to another country is no small thing, and most people would avoid it if they had the chance. The fact that they don't means that the cost of changing things in their country is much higher than the cost of moving their entire families to another. Indeed the cost of political change only continues to get higher with the brain-drain. But if were really high to begin with, the brain-drain doesn't make that much of a difference.
xyzzyz 12y ago
No companies in my country will offer me comparable salary to the one that companies in Bay Area bubble currently offer. Since I have no ties that prevent me from moving from here, it is in my best interest to leech the money from the bubble. This is a common dilemma for poorer countries sharing the Western culture (e.g. the Baltic countries or central European ones) -- allow brain drain, but reduce unemployment, social unrest, and increase GDP via remittances, or fight with it, but deal with these problems locally.
guard-of-terra 12y ago
"knowledge and information resources from less advantaged places to be absorbed" And who forces "less advantaged places" to be crappy? It's not like "not sucking" has a price tag on it. Lousy civil rights, religious zealotry, all that stuff. - your future brain drain participant

by wahsd 12y ago

matthewmacleod 12y ago

I'm not totally convinced by that – it's really easy to see that there could well be long-term positives. For example, what proportion of people who travel for work end up returning to their home country, bringing back skills which are beneficial domestically? I think we'd need to see some studies on that to draw any real conclusions, but your reaction seems too negative.

fennecfoxen 12y ago
There's also sort of an iron-curtain mentality emergent in telling people, "you can't come to the West to work on these tech jobs: your home country needs you to work on something you will probably find to be much less lucrative, technologically advanced, and fulfilling." People do not exist to be slaves exploited by their homeland any more than they exist to be slaves exploited by a colonial power.

hauget 12y ago

Screwed up and flawed HOW? If it wasn't for a job that provided me a work visa to work in the US and then France, I would have never left my home country for better opportunities. Are you even an immigrant to be talking so negatively about this? Sure, I'd like a job tied to no VISA, but sadly that's not how the system is setup.

davidw 12y ago

This is zero-sum thinking of the basest sort. If you've got the skills to be a really good software developer, you're just never going to go anywhere if you are stuck somewhere without electricity. Or if you're a woman in a country that doesn't let women do stuff. Or if you want to do fashion but live in rural Nebraska. Or if you have the talent to be a world class skier but were born in the Bahamas. There are all kinds of reasons to let people choose where they want to go themselves without you deciding where they can and can't go.

Dewie 12y ago

I for one look forward to the day when all interesting software jobs are to to be found in the US, I mean California, I mean the Bay Area. Not.

Dewie 12y ago
I'm sorry to have offended the Bay Area Software Overlords?

spion 12y ago

I think you're overestimating the effect that visas have VS other factors. Take the country's current socio-political situation as an example Moving to another country is no small thing, and most people would avoid it if they had the chance. The fact that they don't means that the cost of changing things in their country is much higher than the cost of moving their entire families to another. Indeed the cost of political change only continues to get higher with the brain-drain. But if were really high to begin with, the brain-drain doesn't make that much of a difference.

xyzzyz 12y ago

No companies in my country will offer me comparable salary to the one that companies in Bay Area bubble currently offer. Since I have no ties that prevent me from moving from here, it is in my best interest to leech the money from the bubble. This is a common dilemma for poorer countries sharing the Western culture (e.g. the Baltic countries or central European ones) -- allow brain drain, but reduce unemployment, social unrest, and increase GDP via remittances, or fight with it, but deal with these problems locally.

guard-of-terra 12y ago

"knowledge and information resources from less advantaged places to be absorbed" And who forces "less advantaged places" to be crappy? It's not like "not sucking" has a price tag on it. Lousy civil rights, religious zealotry, all that stuff. - your future brain drain participant