4 ms·

Quite the opposite, Zoe Quinn herself has been discovered to have played a role in SWATing her critics [1]. Incidentally, KotakuInAction has been featured elsew

by lake99 12y ago

Quite the opposite, Zoe Quinn herself has been discovered to have played a role in SWATing her critics [1]. Incidentally, KotakuInAction has been featured elsewhere today [2]. I agree with your last sentence. [1] http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2015/01/gamergate-swatting-and-zoe-quinn.html http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2015/01/gamergate-swatting... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/subredditoftheday/comments/2yb80x/march_8th_2015_rkotakuinaction_gaming_journalism/ https://www.reddit.com/r/subredditoftheday/comments/2yb80x/m...

chris_wot 12y ago
Oh, go away! These links are hardly credible.
- lake99 12y ago
  As opposed to the credible links you have provided?
  - chris_wot 12y ago
    I need to provide credible links to prove that someone didn't do something?
    - lake99 12y ago
      How about shedding light on the matter with actual information rather than trying to score with empty rhetoric? I'm sorry if I'm asking for too much.
    - reitanqild 12y ago
      Yep. If KiA isn't Subreddit of the day that should be easy to prove.
      - chris_wot 12y ago
        What? He's providing the link to reddit to prove that Zoe Quinn called in a Swot team. The source is reliable for matters on Reddit, but that's not what we are discussing.
        reitanqild 12y ago
        NO! Now you start reading before making assumptions! SERIOUSLY: The reddit link is about KiA being subreddit-of-the-day. The other link is about the Swot[sic] team, and it is NOT on reddit. Now you wait until you are sober and/or ready to read before you comment : )
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        chris_wot 12y ago
        You are correct, I misread the original post. I apologise for that - the error is mine.
- reitanqild 12y ago
  It very much seems like KiA is subbreddit of the day. If you have reason to believe otherwise, please bring the links. ;-) (Now, if you don't mind, take a minute to consider what you have just said in your last comments.)
  - chris_wot 12y ago
    Reddit is not a reliable source of information. Full stop.
    - reitanqild 12y ago
      It as the only reliable source on what is subreddit-of-the-day though. And you still haven't provided evidence of anything else. As the sign next to the radios used to say: think-push-speak.
      - chris_wot 12y ago
        What's your point? It's not a reliable source that Zoe Quinn called in a Swot team against someone falsely!
        reitanqild 12y ago
        No, I didn't mention that link, which btw isn't from reddit but from someones blog. (I haven't made up my mind on that one but it seems he makes a leap yes.) I'm trying to point out that you are acting as if you have already made up you mind: whatever the facts, gg-ers are wrong. In this case it seems you are, among other things, denying that KiA is Subreddit-of-the-day. Which is very easy to prove. I suggest you read through this very carefully and find out exactly what you commented on instead of jumping to conclusions[1]. Because, you know, -this isn't reddit. [1]: Protip: This often a good idea elsewhere as well.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
acdha 12y ago
“Quite the opposite” ignores that people involved with GamerGate have actually SWATed people (see e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/13/gamergate-hits-new-low-with-attempts-to-send-swat-teams-to-critics http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/13/gamergate-...) and has engaged in all of the other activities I listed. Even if true, a single incident doesn't magically cancel out half a year of real harassment no matter how many times GamerGaters have tried use that logic to avoid addressing bad behaviour by their fellows. That said, you're linking to a post written by Mike Cernovitch, one of the more vociferous people in GamerGate, where he's making the popular argument that he's the real victim here. Again, let's review the evidence: if you read more than the headline it's immediately obvious that there was no actual SWATing or even threat to do so and, more importantly, none of it was done by Zoe Quinn. The person who actually posted his address used the information which he'd listed on a business directory before removing it and apologizing: https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-lawyer-of-gamergate-419d0617f259#6975 https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-law... The key thing, of course, is that he wouldn't have been able to use a stranger’s actions to justify the anti-Zoe hate campaign. If you read it closely, notice how each claim in the article starts with something true but then adds unsupported insinuations that Zoe was masterminding it in an effort to shift the ire to her rather than the person who actually wrote the post.
- lake99 12y ago
  I agree that there was no actual SWATing in Cernovich's case. He has been reported to the LAPD (probably several times) for harassment. However he has been doxxed, and I don't know how you're saying none of it was done by Quinn. Quinn has 52K followers on twitter. I think I can conclude that her tweets are widely read. And she has repeatedly publicized dox articles. Does that make her any less guilty than actually writing those articles herself? And Quinn herself admits that doxxing and SWATing are a package deal. SWATings are usually initiated as an anonymous tip, "stranger's actions", as you put it in a different context. I don't know how the law works in the US, but if it were up to me, I'd hold the doxxer responsible for it. The Guardian article is probably right in naming baphomet (on 8chan), but then follows it up with some very shady language to link it with KiA. I have visited baphomet a few times, and they seem to be doing their own thing, whatever that may be. As far as I know, Reddit has very strict policies in place to discourage doxxing (except on r/doxme). KotakuInAction, the one you called gamergate's organizing site, cannot be involved in doxxing. Though I'm not a regular reader, I visit it every few weeks to see what they're up to. Not only have I not seen any doxxing there, I have seen threads discouraging such behavior. Also see their Rule #2: "This is the quickest way to a ban, not just from us, but the Reddit admins. Seriously, don’t do it. Take every effort to ensure that your posts do not include any personal information, especially in screenshots."

by lake99 12y ago

chris_wot 12y ago

Oh, go away! These links are hardly credible.

lake99 12y ago
As opposed to the credible links you have provided?
- chris_wot 12y ago
  I need to provide credible links to prove that someone didn't do something?
  - lake99 12y ago
    How about shedding light on the matter with actual information rather than trying to score with empty rhetoric? I'm sorry if I'm asking for too much.
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    Yep. If KiA isn't Subreddit of the day that should be easy to prove.
    - chris_wot 12y ago
      What? He's providing the link to reddit to prove that Zoe Quinn called in a Swot team. The source is reliable for matters on Reddit, but that's not what we are discussing.
      - reitanqild 12y ago
        NO! Now you start reading before making assumptions! SERIOUSLY: The reddit link is about KiA being subreddit-of-the-day. The other link is about the Swot[sic] team, and it is NOT on reddit. Now you wait until you are sober and/or ready to read before you comment : )
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        chris_wot 12y ago
        You are correct, I misread the original post. I apologise for that - the error is mine.
reitanqild 12y ago
It very much seems like KiA is subbreddit of the day. If you have reason to believe otherwise, please bring the links. ;-) (Now, if you don't mind, take a minute to consider what you have just said in your last comments.)
- chris_wot 12y ago
  Reddit is not a reliable source of information. Full stop.
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    It as the only reliable source on what is subreddit-of-the-day though. And you still haven't provided evidence of anything else. As the sign next to the radios used to say: think-push-speak.
    - chris_wot 12y ago
      What's your point? It's not a reliable source that Zoe Quinn called in a Swot team against someone falsely!
      - reitanqild 12y ago
        No, I didn't mention that link, which btw isn't from reddit but from someones blog. (I haven't made up my mind on that one but it seems he makes a leap yes.) I'm trying to point out that you are acting as if you have already made up you mind: whatever the facts, gg-ers are wrong. In this case it seems you are, among other things, denying that KiA is Subreddit-of-the-day. Which is very easy to prove. I suggest you read through this very carefully and find out exactly what you commented on instead of jumping to conclusions[1]. Because, you know, -this isn't reddit. [1]: Protip: This often a good idea elsewhere as well.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]

acdha 12y ago

“Quite the opposite” ignores that people involved with GamerGate have actually SWATed people (see e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/13/gamergate-hits-new-low-with-attempts-to-send-swat-teams-to-critics http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/13/gamergate-...) and has engaged in all of the other activities I listed. Even if true, a single incident doesn't magically cancel out half a year of real harassment no matter how many times GamerGaters have tried use that logic to avoid addressing bad behaviour by their fellows. That said, you're linking to a post written by Mike Cernovitch, one of the more vociferous people in GamerGate, where he's making the popular argument that he's the real victim here. Again, let's review the evidence: if you read more than the headline it's immediately obvious that there was no actual SWATing or even threat to do so and, more importantly, none of it was done by Zoe Quinn. The person who actually posted his address used the information which he'd listed on a business directory before removing it and apologizing: https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-lawyer-of-gamergate-419d0617f259#6975 https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-law... The key thing, of course, is that he wouldn't have been able to use a stranger’s actions to justify the anti-Zoe hate campaign. If you read it closely, notice how each claim in the article starts with something true but then adds unsupported insinuations that Zoe was masterminding it in an effort to shift the ire to her rather than the person who actually wrote the post.

lake99 12y ago
I agree that there was no actual SWATing in Cernovich's case. He has been reported to the LAPD (probably several times) for harassment. However he has been doxxed, and I don't know how you're saying none of it was done by Quinn. Quinn has 52K followers on twitter. I think I can conclude that her tweets are widely read. And she has repeatedly publicized dox articles. Does that make her any less guilty than actually writing those articles herself? And Quinn herself admits that doxxing and SWATing are a package deal. SWATings are usually initiated as an anonymous tip, "stranger's actions", as you put it in a different context. I don't know how the law works in the US, but if it were up to me, I'd hold the doxxer responsible for it. The Guardian article is probably right in naming baphomet (on 8chan), but then follows it up with some very shady language to link it with KiA. I have visited baphomet a few times, and they seem to be doing their own thing, whatever that may be. As far as I know, Reddit has very strict policies in place to discourage doxxing (except on r/doxme). KotakuInAction, the one you called gamergate's organizing site, cannot be involved in doxxing. Though I'm not a regular reader, I visit it every few weeks to see what they're up to. Not only have I not seen any doxxing there, I have seen threads discouraging such behavior. Also see their Rule #2: "This is the quickest way to a ban, not just from us, but the Reddit admins. Seriously, don’t do it. Take every effort to ensure that your posts do not include any personal information, especially in screenshots."