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I'm glad that Kelly Ellis chose to include a direct quote from Rod Chavez. Without any additional context, it definitely looks very harassing, and he should be

I'm glad that Kelly Ellis chose to include a direct quote from Rod Chavez. Without any additional context, it definitely looks very harassing, and he should be fired for it. That said, some of the stuff she's written in the past is over-the-top radical (from https://medium.com/@kellyellis/commuting-by-myself-714e6dc47c18 https://medium.com/@kellyellis/commuting-by-myself-714e6dc47...): If you are a strange man trying to talk to me on my way to or from work, when I am commuting alone, you are a harasser, pure and simple. You are threatening. And you need to leave me the fuck alone. I hope this isn't another Adria Richards, Virginia Tech, or Duke Lacrosse situation. I wouldn't necessarily characterize what Vic Gundotra said as harassing, either the compliment or the Sasha Grey comment. Sasha Grey was absolutely hot-as-in-buzz, which would be relevant to someone working on Google+. I'd like to hear the other side of the story before stoning these guys, given the propensity some women have for playing up their victim status to self-promote in the media. That Kelly characterizes herself as a "bitch software engineer, doing what I can to smash the patriarcy", really drives this home. It would be a shame if these men's careers are destroyed for anything less than a whole-truth. Kelly certainly seems predisposed to view any slight as the result of her gender, and any comment that could be construed inappropriate as inappropriate. It would be a true tragedy if men disengaged from female peers and reports out of a fear of career destruction, even from the smallest gaffe, in the same way that many have shied away from interacting with children.

bhayden 12y ago
I don't think a desire to be left alone is radical. Most women desire this, they don't want strangers coming up and talking to them when they're stuck on a train/bus where there's no option to leave. A simple "hi" is the limit of social interaction you should try to push on a stranger in this situation.
- mekoka 12y ago
  I've heard women complaining for the exact opposite. Men not brave enough to engage with them casually. I guess it depends if the man looks like George Clooney.
  - bhayden 12y ago
    That's pretty much it. It's creepy and harassment if a regular guy approaches them. It's what they want if the guy is attractive and she's in the right location. There's no way to know if they find you attractive so it's always harassment from the guy's perspective.
- vidarh 12y ago
  A desire to be left alone is perfectly fine. Automatically describing people as harassers if they try to strike up a conversation, with no qualifiers, is over the top and comes up against the fact that a lot of people (including women) welcome social contact in the same context. Now let me be clear that I am speaking in general. I don't think it is justified to judge her, or her harassment claim, on the basis of that. It is that it is very understandable to see being approached as negative based on her specific experiences with it. E.g. I've seen this in the past with female friends, who have in very general terms denounced being approached in public, and when I've pointed out that they've previously gushed over approached by guys they found nice (and ended up going out with in some cases), I've gotten the reply of "but that's different because ....". Often what such statements boils down to is that they don't want to be approached in creepy ways by creepy people. They just can't (and most of us can't) clearly delineate, what makes an approach creepy and what doesn't.
spopejoy 12y ago
If you are a strange man trying to talk to me on my way to or from work, when I am commuting alone, you are a harasser, pure and simple. You are threatening. And you need to leave me the fuck alone. That's hardly "over-the-top radical." If you're a young-ish woman pretty much anywhere, that strange man getting in your face on your way to work is not a nice fellow but a creep. Every woman I know has described this experience. Also, to say that Adria Richards "[played] up her victim status to self-promote" is pretty hilarious looking at how things worked out for her. There's no "tragedy" if men are a little worried about what they say to women. Caution is probably a good idea if your social skills need help. Systemic widespread harassment of women is the real tragedy, happening every single day.
- emsy 12y ago
  When I first read the quote I thought: Of course this is way over the top! Then I read the article. If I'd experienced what she describes, I would probably haven an even more extreme stance.

bhayden 12y ago

I don't think a desire to be left alone is radical. Most women desire this, they don't want strangers coming up and talking to them when they're stuck on a train/bus where there's no option to leave. A simple "hi" is the limit of social interaction you should try to push on a stranger in this situation.

mekoka 12y ago
I've heard women complaining for the exact opposite. Men not brave enough to engage with them casually. I guess it depends if the man looks like George Clooney.
- bhayden 12y ago
  That's pretty much it. It's creepy and harassment if a regular guy approaches them. It's what they want if the guy is attractive and she's in the right location. There's no way to know if they find you attractive so it's always harassment from the guy's perspective.
vidarh 12y ago
A desire to be left alone is perfectly fine. Automatically describing people as harassers if they try to strike up a conversation, with no qualifiers, is over the top and comes up against the fact that a lot of people (including women) welcome social contact in the same context. Now let me be clear that I am speaking in general. I don't think it is justified to judge her, or her harassment claim, on the basis of that. It is that it is very understandable to see being approached as negative based on her specific experiences with it. E.g. I've seen this in the past with female friends, who have in very general terms denounced being approached in public, and when I've pointed out that they've previously gushed over approached by guys they found nice (and ended up going out with in some cases), I've gotten the reply of "but that's different because ....". Often what such statements boils down to is that they don't want to be approached in creepy ways by creepy people. They just can't (and most of us can't) clearly delineate, what makes an approach creepy and what doesn't.

spopejoy 12y ago

If you are a strange man trying to talk to me on my way to or from work, when I am commuting alone, you are a harasser, pure and simple. You are threatening. And you need to leave me the fuck alone. That's hardly "over-the-top radical." If you're a young-ish woman pretty much anywhere, that strange man getting in your face on your way to work is not a nice fellow but a creep. Every woman I know has described this experience. Also, to say that Adria Richards "[played] up her victim status to self-promote" is pretty hilarious looking at how things worked out for her. There's no "tragedy" if men are a little worried about what they say to women. Caution is probably a good idea if your social skills need help. Systemic widespread harassment of women is the real tragedy, happening every single day.

emsy 12y ago
When I first read the quote I thought: Of course this is way over the top! Then I read the article. If I'd experienced what she describes, I would probably haven an even more extreme stance.