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So i didn't want to leave you hanging, and i figured out thanks to the help of gaius below that i wasn't talking about chavs, but cockney, as exampled in this v

So i didn't want to leave you hanging, and i figured out thanks to the help of gaius below that i wasn't talking about chavs, but cockney, as exampled in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJrBSXSs6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJrBSXSs6o It's an accent i hate not because it sounds different, but because i literally cannot understand what they are saying for over 2/3 of the words (using the term words loosely here, i have trouble distinguishing their words in the first place).

foldr 12y ago
I'm not sure why you'd hate an accent just because you find it difficult to understand as (I'm guessing) a non-native speaker. It's probably just a matter of getting more practice at listening to it.
- Mithaldu 12y ago
  Because generally these people are perfectly capable of using the standard version of their language just fine. I make exceptions for people who were alive at the times of WW2, but most people who speak in heavy accents do it because they have no courtesy for their fellow humans. As for more practice: I already spent 16 years learning english to a near-native degree (among others). I'm not gonna bother trying to learn the accent of someone who probably only speaks a single language and is simply too lazy to use the standard language of their own country.
  - foldr 12y ago
    >most people who speak in heavy accents do it because they have no courtesy for their fellow humans. People speak in their native dialects, and there are a lot of different dialects in Britain. I'm sure it's frustrating a as a second language speaker sometimes. However, the idea that cockneys are simply refusing to speak in Received Pronunciation is just laughable to any British person. You might as well ask a Belgian to speak French with a Parisian accent, or an Australian to speak like an American news reader. People can modulate their dialect to an extent, but beyond a certain limit, people would feel as if they were doing a silly impression rather than speaking naturally. Your attitude is shitty. If you are learning a second language, dealing with dialectal variation is part of that. I am learning Spanish and I find Mexicans, for example, easier to understand than Cubans. I don't blame that on Cubans.
    - Mithaldu 12y ago
      My attitude isn't shitty, it's an honest observation. I know people from four different places in germany who can speak in hilariously heavy dialects (frisian, bavarian, saxonian, swabian), in northern uk (scotland), and various parts of the usa (people from 'redneck' states are amazing for online play), and they're able to switch to the standard version of their country's language at the drop of a hat. Also, you are comparing apples and oranges. I am talking about people in their own country with dialects, you're talking about people in other countries speaking differently from the country where their language originated in. Frankly, i would appreciate it if you wouldn't constantly assume that i am lying for the sake of my "internet cred".
      - foldr 12y ago
        It is simply not true that anyone who speaks a dialect can easily switch to a more standard pronunciation. To take your particular example, the idea of a born-and-bred cockney speaker suddenly switching to Received Pronunciation is just laughable to any British person. If you won't believe this coming from me, a British person, then I'm not sure how much further we can take this conversation. >I am talking about people in their own country with dialects, you're talking about people in other countries speaking differently from the country where their language originated in. I don't see why national boundaries are particularly significant here. Intranational dialectal variation can be as large as international variation. If your point is that it's not reasonable to expect a Cuban to put on a Mexican accent, then I'd point out that it's equally unreasonable to expect someone from the East End to speak like the Queen. In both cases, even if the person happened to be able to do a good impression of the accent in question, they'd feel as though they were doing an impression rather than having a normal conversation. In general, there is no conspiracy here. If people want to communicate with you, and feel able to speak in a more standard dialect to help with this, then they will. If they don't, it's because they can't.

foldr 12y ago

I'm not sure why you'd hate an accent just because you find it difficult to understand as (I'm guessing) a non-native speaker. It's probably just a matter of getting more practice at listening to it.

Mithaldu 12y ago
Because generally these people are perfectly capable of using the standard version of their language just fine. I make exceptions for people who were alive at the times of WW2, but most people who speak in heavy accents do it because they have no courtesy for their fellow humans. As for more practice: I already spent 16 years learning english to a near-native degree (among others). I'm not gonna bother trying to learn the accent of someone who probably only speaks a single language and is simply too lazy to use the standard language of their own country.
- foldr 12y ago
  >most people who speak in heavy accents do it because they have no courtesy for their fellow humans. People speak in their native dialects, and there are a lot of different dialects in Britain. I'm sure it's frustrating a as a second language speaker sometimes. However, the idea that cockneys are simply refusing to speak in Received Pronunciation is just laughable to any British person. You might as well ask a Belgian to speak French with a Parisian accent, or an Australian to speak like an American news reader. People can modulate their dialect to an extent, but beyond a certain limit, people would feel as if they were doing a silly impression rather than speaking naturally. Your attitude is shitty. If you are learning a second language, dealing with dialectal variation is part of that. I am learning Spanish and I find Mexicans, for example, easier to understand than Cubans. I don't blame that on Cubans.
  - Mithaldu 12y ago
    My attitude isn't shitty, it's an honest observation. I know people from four different places in germany who can speak in hilariously heavy dialects (frisian, bavarian, saxonian, swabian), in northern uk (scotland), and various parts of the usa (people from 'redneck' states are amazing for online play), and they're able to switch to the standard version of their country's language at the drop of a hat. Also, you are comparing apples and oranges. I am talking about people in their own country with dialects, you're talking about people in other countries speaking differently from the country where their language originated in. Frankly, i would appreciate it if you wouldn't constantly assume that i am lying for the sake of my "internet cred".
    - foldr 12y ago
      It is simply not true that anyone who speaks a dialect can easily switch to a more standard pronunciation. To take your particular example, the idea of a born-and-bred cockney speaker suddenly switching to Received Pronunciation is just laughable to any British person. If you won't believe this coming from me, a British person, then I'm not sure how much further we can take this conversation. >I am talking about people in their own country with dialects, you're talking about people in other countries speaking differently from the country where their language originated in. I don't see why national boundaries are particularly significant here. Intranational dialectal variation can be as large as international variation. If your point is that it's not reasonable to expect a Cuban to put on a Mexican accent, then I'd point out that it's equally unreasonable to expect someone from the East End to speak like the Queen. In both cases, even if the person happened to be able to do a good impression of the accent in question, they'd feel as though they were doing an impression rather than having a normal conversation. In general, there is no conspiracy here. If people want to communicate with you, and feel able to speak in a more standard dialect to help with this, then they will. If they don't, it's because they can't.