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> If you (man or woman) work somewhere where the culture is harassing/hostile to women (or to anyone), you should take it seriously and either work elsewhere or

> If you (man or woman) work somewhere where the culture is harassing/hostile to women (or to anyone), you should take it seriously and either work elsewhere or try to stop it. This is true. However, this incident - by itself - isn't evidence of a "culture that is harassing/hostile to women" at Google. All I see in this incident is evidence of a single employee, making a single inappropriate comment, with an over-the-top, attention seeking reaction by its recipient. This is a matter for HR - not for Twitter/Google+. On the bright side, this is probably the most action that Google+ has seen in quite a while.

leereeves 12y ago
She pinned a single quote, but she alleges much more: a pattern of behavior, and willful ignorance or worse by HR. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9163769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9163769
- powertower 12y ago
  3 statements, one of which seemed to be made under the influence, and the other 2 which where simple quick compliments (and in no way harassment), made offsite, and years apart, is not a pattern. It's dots. Her further allegations of being pigeon holed or moved out because of this are not proven, and might not be true at all.
  - leereeves 12y ago
    If you mean that we shouldn't destroy a man's or a company's reputation based solely on these allegations, I absolutely agree.
x0x0 12y ago
And congrats, you are the problem. Either 1 - you didn't read her claims; or 2 - you don't see the problem in a supervisor making such a comment, necessitating the employee's career advancement stop so she wouldn't report directly to him. So it's not just a single employee, but other people involved making sure she doesn't report to him. The instant he made that comment Google had to choose, and they chose him over her. And claiming she needs a reprimand... I don't even.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - DanBC 12y ago
    She doesn't work for that company anymore.
bootload 12y ago
"this incident isn't evidence of a "culture that is harassing/hostile to women" at Google." Bad apple or a culture of making bad apples? The standard you walk past is that standard you accept ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U
BrandonM 12y ago
If you actually read through it all, you'll see that she poured her drink on him after that ridiculous comment, then he reported her to HR for that. She got reprimanded, he got promoted. At least that is what is being alleged. Your comment is pretty insensitive in that context.
- downandout 12y ago
  >Your comment is pretty insensitive in that context. I'm not sure how. He made an an inexcusable comment to her. If she felt this strongly about it, she should have taken her drink with her to HR - immediately (or as soon as practical thereafter). She would have been in a much stronger position at that point. He acted inappropriately, and she responded inappropriately. My comment was not intended to deny the possibility of a hostile culture at Google. My point was that this incident, by itself, doesn't stand up as evidence of such a culture. Too many people read a single headline and interpret it as the rule, not the exception.
  - googler98765 12y ago
    Members of HR do not come with us to team offsites. Maybe they should, but they wouldn't have been around then.
  - lentil_soup 12y ago
    It's insensitive in that your are making a false balance fallacy by equating his actions with her reaction by saying something like "He acted inappropriately, and she responded inappropriately". She was sexually harrassed, her reaction is pretty minor in this discussion.
    - downandout 12y ago
      >her reaction is pretty minor in this discussion Let me be clear that I believe this guy to be a jackass - not only for making the comment, but then having the nerve to officially complain about the drink. I likely would have terminated him. But by reacting the way she did, she took away any leverage that she had, and that was reflected in the outcome. So, no, her reaction isn't "pretty minor in this discussion". It actually had a huge impact on the negative outcome.
prezjordan 12y ago
I don't know about you but I would not under any circumstances WANT this kind of attention, let alone go seeking for it. Who in their right mind would? If it were just a "single employee" as you say, then that "single employee" would've been dealt with swiftly and removed for his comments. That didn't happen. Instead, this individual was protected, and moved up in the company, preventing the recipient from doing the same. And it's not just one situation. This person was brave enough to speak up about it. Would you be able to? I certainly wouldn't. I imagine many others also aren't, and I hope some of them feel more comfortable going forward.
pekk 12y ago
If one employee sexually harasses another employee in a one-off incident, maybe it's an exception and not a culture of sexism. If it's one executive, that executive is contributing to a culture of sexism - though it's possible he's just the bad apple spoiling the barrel, and maybe there is no broader problem, and the problem can still be easily nipped in the bud. The smoking gun lies in Google's response to the incident. When HR backs up sexual harassment of employees by their bosses, that makes a strong case that there is a systemic cultural problem that goes beyond the influence of one executive, and won't be fixed just by firing one executive. That's the real story here. Not even the incident, not really the executive, and certainly not the employee, but Google's response. When HR's own response isn't appropriate, that does become an issue for the public.

leereeves 12y ago

She pinned a single quote, but she alleges much more: a pattern of behavior, and willful ignorance or worse by HR. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9163769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9163769

powertower 12y ago
3 statements, one of which seemed to be made under the influence, and the other 2 which where simple quick compliments (and in no way harassment), made offsite, and years apart, is not a pattern. It's dots. Her further allegations of being pigeon holed or moved out because of this are not proven, and might not be true at all.
- leereeves 12y ago
  If you mean that we shouldn't destroy a man's or a company's reputation based solely on these allegations, I absolutely agree.

x0x0 12y ago

And congrats, you are the problem. Either 1 - you didn't read her claims; or 2 - you don't see the problem in a supervisor making such a comment, necessitating the employee's career advancement stop so she wouldn't report directly to him. So it's not just a single employee, but other people involved making sure she doesn't report to him. The instant he made that comment Google had to choose, and they chose him over her. And claiming she needs a reprimand... I don't even.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- DanBC 12y ago
  She doesn't work for that company anymore.

bootload 12y ago

"this incident isn't evidence of a "culture that is harassing/hostile to women" at Google." Bad apple or a culture of making bad apples? The standard you walk past is that standard you accept ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U

BrandonM 12y ago

If you actually read through it all, you'll see that she poured her drink on him after that ridiculous comment, then he reported her to HR for that. She got reprimanded, he got promoted. At least that is what is being alleged. Your comment is pretty insensitive in that context.

downandout 12y ago
>Your comment is pretty insensitive in that context. I'm not sure how. He made an an inexcusable comment to her. If she felt this strongly about it, she should have taken her drink with her to HR - immediately (or as soon as practical thereafter). She would have been in a much stronger position at that point. He acted inappropriately, and she responded inappropriately. My comment was not intended to deny the possibility of a hostile culture at Google. My point was that this incident, by itself, doesn't stand up as evidence of such a culture. Too many people read a single headline and interpret it as the rule, not the exception.
- googler98765 12y ago
  Members of HR do not come with us to team offsites. Maybe they should, but they wouldn't have been around then.
- lentil_soup 12y ago
  It's insensitive in that your are making a false balance fallacy by equating his actions with her reaction by saying something like "He acted inappropriately, and she responded inappropriately". She was sexually harrassed, her reaction is pretty minor in this discussion.
  - downandout 12y ago
    >her reaction is pretty minor in this discussion Let me be clear that I believe this guy to be a jackass - not only for making the comment, but then having the nerve to officially complain about the drink. I likely would have terminated him. But by reacting the way she did, she took away any leverage that she had, and that was reflected in the outcome. So, no, her reaction isn't "pretty minor in this discussion". It actually had a huge impact on the negative outcome.

prezjordan 12y ago

I don't know about you but I would not under any circumstances WANT this kind of attention, let alone go seeking for it. Who in their right mind would? If it were just a "single employee" as you say, then that "single employee" would've been dealt with swiftly and removed for his comments. That didn't happen. Instead, this individual was protected, and moved up in the company, preventing the recipient from doing the same. And it's not just one situation. This person was brave enough to speak up about it. Would you be able to? I certainly wouldn't. I imagine many others also aren't, and I hope some of them feel more comfortable going forward.

pekk 12y ago

If one employee sexually harasses another employee in a one-off incident, maybe it's an exception and not a culture of sexism. If it's one executive, that executive is contributing to a culture of sexism - though it's possible he's just the bad apple spoiling the barrel, and maybe there is no broader problem, and the problem can still be easily nipped in the bud. The smoking gun lies in Google's response to the incident. When HR backs up sexual harassment of employees by their bosses, that makes a strong case that there is a systemic cultural problem that goes beyond the influence of one executive, and won't be fixed just by firing one executive. That's the real story here. Not even the incident, not really the executive, and certainly not the employee, but Google's response. When HR's own response isn't appropriate, that does become an issue for the public.