3 ms·

I don't understand how it can't be for personal agenda and PR when her response to two adults making juvenile jokes to themselves is to publicly shame them. Si

I don't understand how it can't be for personal agenda and PR when her response to two adults making juvenile jokes to themselves is to publicly shame them. Since kindergarten children are taught to politely ask somebody to stop as their first step, and escalate from there -- not go nuclear right from the get-go. Or maybe I'm out of the loop on this -- I could be. I really only read about this the other night -- I get a healthy enough dose of drama just in my own life without having to read about somebody else's :-)

kennywinker 12y ago
We don't really need to speculate why she did it. She details it quite articulately on her blog http://butyoureagirl.com/2013/03/18/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/ http://butyoureagirl.com/2013/03/18/forking-and-dongle-jokes... <lots of context snipped> > I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t say anything to them directly. I was a guest in the Python community and as such, I wanted to give PyCon the opportunity to address this. <more context snipped> So if "personal agenda" includes being fed up with tech industry sexism, then yeah it was very obviously because of a personal agenda. PR? Sure, she was trying to manage how her story was received by the public. Wouldn't you?
- throwawaymaroon 12y ago
  The line is crossed when she wants to obscure the truth in her image's favor.
  - kennywinker 12y ago
    Like how you're using a throwaway to obscure the truth in your image's favor?
    - throwawaymaroon 12y ago
      ...I really don't know what you even intend to mean with this. The truth is that this is a forum that allows anonymous discourse, and I'm not pretending my participation is anything more than that. I hope you explain yourself, because from what I can tell, you're attempting something ugly.
      - kennywinker 12y ago
        People try to control how their stories are told, how their stories are received. You are doing so by using a throwaway. As I said in this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9164064 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9164064, I don't think Adria Richards did anything out of line in asking for an apology to be modified. You're allowed to be anonymous in this context, you are allowed to try to control how your story is told.
        throwawaymaroon 12y ago
        That is a fatuous, petty equivalence. I am not a subject of a story being told in the public eye. I am not being asked by anyone to modify the telling of my story to please their agenda. Asking someone to bear false witness is not comparable to posting as a throwaway. And in any case, your logic of narrative control is contradictory: Adria was trying to override Hank's control over how his story was told. She didn't ask him publicly, she went through back channels to his previous employer for social leverage. Hank is allowed to try to control how his story was told. Adria tried to interfere with that right.
        kennywinker 12y ago
        Not contradictory. Everyone's allowed to TRY to control how their story is told. She tried to get him to modify his apology to be less muddy. He tried to mitigate the damage of being called out by playing for sympathy. I see no contradiction, and I see no foul play in either of those actions. > She didn't ask him publicly, she went through back channels to his previous employer for social leverage. I'm sure going public would have resulted in people accusing her of "going nuclear", or adding insult to injury, etc. Considering this guy was recently fired, I wouldn't want to speak directly to him if I were her. That leaves going via his former employer. You can choose to see that as using "social leverage" but there's no real way to know. If that was the point, it wasn't enough leverage, because he didn't change it. Facing down this king of online scrutiny and doubt of your motives is exactly why women tend to keep quite about this kind of stuff, and then things don't change because nobody's talking about the problems.

kennywinker 12y ago

We don't really need to speculate why she did it. She details it quite articulately on her blog http://butyoureagirl.com/2013/03/18/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/ http://butyoureagirl.com/2013/03/18/forking-and-dongle-jokes... <lots of context snipped> > I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t say anything to them directly. I was a guest in the Python community and as such, I wanted to give PyCon the opportunity to address this. <more context snipped> So if "personal agenda" includes being fed up with tech industry sexism, then yeah it was very obviously because of a personal agenda. PR? Sure, she was trying to manage how her story was received by the public. Wouldn't you?

throwawaymaroon 12y ago
The line is crossed when she wants to obscure the truth in her image's favor.
- kennywinker 12y ago
  Like how you're using a throwaway to obscure the truth in your image's favor?
  - throwawaymaroon 12y ago
    ...I really don't know what you even intend to mean with this. The truth is that this is a forum that allows anonymous discourse, and I'm not pretending my participation is anything more than that. I hope you explain yourself, because from what I can tell, you're attempting something ugly.
    - kennywinker 12y ago
      People try to control how their stories are told, how their stories are received. You are doing so by using a throwaway. As I said in this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9164064 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9164064, I don't think Adria Richards did anything out of line in asking for an apology to be modified. You're allowed to be anonymous in this context, you are allowed to try to control how your story is told.
      - throwawaymaroon 12y ago
        That is a fatuous, petty equivalence. I am not a subject of a story being told in the public eye. I am not being asked by anyone to modify the telling of my story to please their agenda. Asking someone to bear false witness is not comparable to posting as a throwaway. And in any case, your logic of narrative control is contradictory: Adria was trying to override Hank's control over how his story was told. She didn't ask him publicly, she went through back channels to his previous employer for social leverage. Hank is allowed to try to control how his story was told. Adria tried to interfere with that right.
        kennywinker 12y ago
        Not contradictory. Everyone's allowed to TRY to control how their story is told. She tried to get him to modify his apology to be less muddy. He tried to mitigate the damage of being called out by playing for sympathy. I see no contradiction, and I see no foul play in either of those actions. > She didn't ask him publicly, she went through back channels to his previous employer for social leverage. I'm sure going public would have resulted in people accusing her of "going nuclear", or adding insult to injury, etc. Considering this guy was recently fired, I wouldn't want to speak directly to him if I were her. That leaves going via his former employer. You can choose to see that as using "social leverage" but there's no real way to know. If that was the point, it wasn't enough leverage, because he didn't change it. Facing down this king of online scrutiny and doubt of your motives is exactly why women tend to keep quite about this kind of stuff, and then things don't change because nobody's talking about the problems.